AeroSpike Bullets

[HappyHellfire]

Looking for a little bit of advice and guidance here.
I'm a ballistician and aerospace engineer with what I think is a cool new bullet design. I call it an AeroSpike bullet after the aerospike rocket engine that I got the idea from. Basically a lot of math to shape the base so that it lowers the drag. I turned a bunch of prototypes in .308 from copper with a little CNC Sherline lathe and test fired with really good results. Drag coefficient of 0.24 @ Mach 2.55 (2870 fts/sec) (BC(G1) round 0.51 for a 150 grain bullet). More accurate, more range, more impact energy.

So now the question is, what do I do with them?
Try to sell them to a bullet manufacturer?
Try to make them myself?
Try to startup a business and raise money?
Does the average shooter even care about this or are they happy with what they got?

Here is a pic of the prototype.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

Looking for a little bit of advice and guidance here.
I'm a ballistician and aerospace engineer with what I think is a cool new bullet design. I call it an AeroSpike bullet after the aerospike rocket engine that I got the idea from. Basically a lot of math to shape the base so that it lowers the drag. I turned a bunch of prototypes in .308 from copper with a little CNC Sherline lathe and test fired with really good results. Drag coefficient of 0.24 @ Mach 2.55 (2870 fts/sec) (BC(G1) round 0.51 for a 150 grain bullet). More accurate, more range, more impact energy.

So now the question is, what do I do with them?
Try to sell them to a bullet manufacturer?
Try to make them myself?
Try to startup a business and raise money?
Does the average shooter even care about this or are they happy with what they got?

Here is a pic of the prototype.

View attachment 1286955

What have you done to show they're more accurate?

 

[HappyHellfire]

What have you done to show they're more accurate?

I'm basing that on the Siacci method of calculating flat fire trajectories "lag rule". The difference between the time of flight and the time of flight in a vacuum (lag) times the cross wind speed gives you cross wind deflection. These bullets have such a low drag that the time of flight is much lower than normal and thus less wind error.

As far as groupings they group just like the boattails that I compared to. I was shooting an H&R Handirifle for safety with a prototype round and it is not exactly a sub MOA gun.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I'd think you have to figure out what your intended market is first. From what I've seen solid copper bullets don't win BR matches. Or F-class for that matter. The only place I've seen solids win is in the ELR game with really big cartridges.

There are hunters who use solids. I have and they work. But your bullet looks like a FMJ so unless you change the front end to expand or fracture it won't work there either.

 

[HappyHellfire]

I'd think you have to figure out what your intended market is first. From what I've seen solid copper bullets don't win BR matches. Or F-class for that matter. The only place I've seen solids win is in the ELR game with really big cartridges.

There are hunters who use solids. I have and they work. But your bullet looks like a FMJ so unless you change the front end to expand or fracture it won't work there either.

Thanks for the insight. It should not be too hard to modify the nose for better expansion and keep most of the low drag benefits.

As far as target rounds, I have done a pretty good comparison to a Sierra 168 and it looks really good. Flatter trajectory, shorter TOF, about 12% less windage at 800 meters. I kind of want to enter myself with them and see how well I do. I just don't want my crappy shooting to make the bullet look bad.

 

[CharlieNC]

Looks like these could really shine for the ELR shooters for a mile and greater, who are also willing to pay for this performance if you can demonstrate real world results. I suggest reaching out to that community for field testing. Perhaps military too for similar application?

 

[mr45man]

Patients.

 

[BartsBullets]

Make some 6mm 103 grain Bullets or 68 gr bullets for testing and send them to me. To compare accuracy they need to be shot in a Benchrest rifle. I highly doubt they will out preform traditional Bullets. Higher BC doesn’t always translate into higher accuracy. But I have an open mind. Dr Palmasono approached me with a similar idea years ago.

If the bullets are accurate and maintain a much higher BC they could be a game changer at ELR.

BART

 

[1shot]

What do they weigh?

Lloyd

 

[std7mag]

What do they weigh?

Lloyd

Whatever he chooses to make them.

My interest lies in required twist rate.

I applaud Bart for being willing to test them!

And if some 25 caliber bullets were designed to work with a 1:10 twist, i'm willing to do some testing also.

Might even load some backwards just to see what results are gotten from that.

 

[HappyHellfire]

Patients.

Already submitted. Thanks

 

[HappyHellfire]

Make some 6mm 103 grain Bullets or 68 gr bullets for testing and send them to me. To compare accuracy they need to be shot in a Benchrest rifle. I highly doubt they will out preform traditional Bullets. Higher BC doesn’t always translate into higher accuracy. But I have an open mind. Dr Palmasono approached me with a similar idea years ago.

If the bullets are accurate and maintain a much higher BC they could be a game changer at ELR.

BART

Sure thing, I'm assuming 6mm PPC? What twist are you shooting?

I'd also love to hear about Dr. Palmisano's idea. There is some research from ARL on extended base designs but mostly rounded concave bases.

 

[HappyHellfire]

Whatever he chooses to make them.

My interest lies in required twist rate.

I applaud Bart for being willing to test them!

And if some 25 caliber bullets were designed to work with a 1:10 twist, i'm willing to do some testing also.

Might even load some backwards just to see what results are gotten from that.

Let me run the numbers on a 25 caliber at 1:10 and see what the stability numbers are. What muzzle velocity are you expecting?

 

[Tokay444]

Patients.

Doctor's office or emergency room?

 

[Fuj]

Cut a rebate into them similar to a DTAC and test them side
by side. And doe;s'nt Bart have a tunnel to shoot in to make
a cleaner test ??

 

[BartsBullets]

Sure thing, I'm assuming 6mm PPC? What twist are you shooting?

I'd also love to hear about Dr. Palmisano's idea. There is some research from ARL on extended base designs but mostly rounded concave bases.

13.5 twist

 

[okie]

Does Homer Powley's book mention this?
Be cool if you could get Stecker and Litz in on this...maybe call em??

 

[std7mag]

Patients.

Patent?

As in the US Patent Office?

Let me run the numbers on a 25 caliber at 1:10 and see what the stability numbers are. What muzzle velocity are you expecting?

That would depend greatly upon what weight you end up with.

Rifle is 250 Savage with 26" barrel, 1:10. Waiting on the stock to be finished.

 

[wwbrown]

Maybe I am a little slow, but wouldn't your velocity comparison graph be a little more informative if both bullets had the same muzzle velocity? It is not real clear to me whether the difference between the two velocities curves is due to differing drag coefficients or muzzle velocity.

In the velocity comparison plot are these measured or modeled velocities?

 

[HappyHellfire]

13.5 twist

So I ran the numbers and it is a no-go with a 13.5 twist 6mm. The Sierra HPBT drops from a stability (Sg) of around 2.5 @ Mach 2.5 at 10 inches to around 1.5 with a 13.5. My bullets in that caliber at that twist would be around 0.6. I could probably design one but it would be a while.

Do you want some of the .308 that I have already tested? Those have a Sg around 1.9 at Mach 2.5.