Have a bunch of newbie questions, finally have the money together to build a tube gun, have an Eliseo stock on order. Im chambering it for 6br, the max distance I can shoot at the range most convenient to me is 300 yards. Can anyone offer some advice on the bullet weight range I should be looking at for that distance and the appropriate twist rate for the barrel? Also invite some input on the barrel length (was thinking 28") and manufacturer, I have several kriegers on other rifles, but open to something new. Planning to build on a pierce action. Thanks!
Advise for 6br tube gun
- Thread starter woolenmammoth
- Start date
Unless you see longer range in your future, I would advise against a fast twist barrel and 105-107 Gr. bullets. If, as you stated, 300 yds is your max range, go for the 14 twist and lighter bullets.
I shoot at the distances you describe and I went with a 1:13.5 twist 24 inch barrel. I use 70 grain SMK bullets with excellent accuracy. I'm thinking about my next 6BR for the same ranges and will probably go with a 1:12 twist and no more than a 26 inch barrel. This twist will handle up to 80 grain bullets which can be good out to even 600 yards in relative calm conditions.
I give up a little velocity with the shorter barrels, but I don't think I need the extra velocity at the ranges I shoot. I like how the shorter barrels balance over 28 and 30 inch barrels, which could be an important factor with the stock you are going to use.
If I shot at the longer ranges it would be a no brainer - 1:8 twist, heavy bullets and a long barrel.
As for the barrel maker. If you had good luck with Krieger, why change?
I give up a little velocity with the shorter barrels, but I don't think I need the extra velocity at the ranges I shoot. I like how the shorter barrels balance over 28 and 30 inch barrels, which could be an important factor with the stock you are going to use.
If I shot at the longer ranges it would be a no brainer - 1:8 twist, heavy bullets and a long barrel.
As for the barrel maker. If you had good luck with Krieger, why change?
Stan Ware is building a .30/6 BR switch-barrel gun for me, Farley Black Widow action, both Krieger barrels. The .30 is a 17 twist HV and the 6 is a 13.5 HV, both 24" length. The rifle will use a Robertson stock and is intended for 100-300 yard score and group BR shooting, respectively.
For 300-600 yard shooting, I have a Stiller Viper SS 6 BR with 30", 8 twist Bartlein HV barrel in a Shehane ST1000 stock. The Viper shoots just fine for 300 yards and can handle high BC bullets for longer ranges. The attached target shot with Sierra 107 MK molys at 2900 fps shows that heavy bullets and fast twists can group well, too.
For 300-600 yard shooting, I have a Stiller Viper SS 6 BR with 30", 8 twist Bartlein HV barrel in a Shehane ST1000 stock. The Viper shoots just fine for 300 yards and can handle high BC bullets for longer ranges. The attached target shot with Sierra 107 MK molys at 2900 fps shows that heavy bullets and fast twists can group well, too.
Attachments
thanks for the great feedback everyone! I am hours drive from a range over 300 yards unfortunately, so Im building this rifle specifically to shoot high power at my local range. My only background is with several 20 cal rifles so Im just trying to learn as much as possible about 6br, been to all the normal spots on the web. Im finding a lot of contradictory info on the ideal bullet weight for 300 yards. Assuming for the sake of discussion that I'll rarely if ever shoot 600 yard, seems like an 8 twist for 105's is unnecessary and worse, throating for 105's is likely not ideal for lighter bullets. Am I correct in thinking this? Problem Im having is trying to make sense of what weight is best at 300 and then of course deciding on the twist from there.
My understanding is that flat base bullets tend to be a bit more stable/accurate for short range (100 - 300 yards) than the boat tails. Bullet quality is a bigger factor than bullet design. Look at recommendations for barrels and twists for the 6mm ppc cartridge on the home page. You are essentially trying to shoot the range where the 6 mm ppc wins more often than not. Again, my smith said 14 twist with 40 thousands free bore. A short heavy barrel is stiffer than a longer barrel so gives better accuracy with easier load tuning. You don't need the extra velocity afforded by the longer barrel at the ranges you plan to shoot.
Cort
Cort
If I was to build a 300yd 6BR for myself, I would start with a barrel in the 24" to 26" range, likely in the range of heavy varmint contour, with probably a 1-12 twist and shoot 80gr flatbase bullets. I think you may even be able to reach 600 with a 1-12 and 80gr FB's. The reason I would use the 80gr FB's, is at 300yds, the wind is going to start to have more of an effect than at shorter ranges and the heavier bullet with higher BC, compared to the 60-75gr bullets, will hold up better in the wind. And they should also tend to yaw a bit less in early flight that the longer 90-115gr boat-tails and VLD's, which should help a little with short range accuracy.
But, where you are shooting prone, you really need to base the barrel length/contour on what will balance well and feel right for you. Having a short and stiff barrel is useless if you can't hold it steady. (bear with me here, I don't shoot highpower and I am not the most knowledgeable on the rules) And since you will be shooting with irons, I believe anyway, extra barrel length will help as it will add sight radius, unless you employ a bloop tube which can compensate for that a bit.
I don't shoot prone, and my 6BR is not yet finished and will be a 1-8 for heavies at 600yds, but I do have a .222 I built for 300yd shooting, and I went with a mid-range twist rate (1-9") to shoot medium weight bullets. It does better at 100-300yds than the 1-7 or 1-8 twist .223's that a couple of my friends shoot, and they are using 75gr and heavier Boat tail and vld bullets.
I have found in my recent testing of lighter FB bullets, that my groups at 100-200 yds are better, most of the time, with 50-60gr FB bullets than with the longer 60-75gr boat tail's. But, it does still shoot the BT's very well, just not quite as tight as the FB's at shorter ranges. I think this should also hold true for the 6BR at 300yds as well.
My 6-.284 (1-10 twist) shoots far better at 100-300yds with flat-base bullets than it does boat-tails.
I would try the 80gr Fowler's (http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1308478/779476.htm) or the 80gr Bergers, which are listed on the Berger site under Varmint bullets (http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1308478/839547.htm) and use a 1-12 twist barrel. And if you want to try the lighter fare, the 1-12 throated for 80's will be far better suited for the task than a 1-8" throated for 105-115's.
Good luck, hope it works out for you.
Kenny
But, where you are shooting prone, you really need to base the barrel length/contour on what will balance well and feel right for you. Having a short and stiff barrel is useless if you can't hold it steady. (bear with me here, I don't shoot highpower and I am not the most knowledgeable on the rules) And since you will be shooting with irons, I believe anyway, extra barrel length will help as it will add sight radius, unless you employ a bloop tube which can compensate for that a bit.
I don't shoot prone, and my 6BR is not yet finished and will be a 1-8 for heavies at 600yds, but I do have a .222 I built for 300yd shooting, and I went with a mid-range twist rate (1-9") to shoot medium weight bullets. It does better at 100-300yds than the 1-7 or 1-8 twist .223's that a couple of my friends shoot, and they are using 75gr and heavier Boat tail and vld bullets.
I have found in my recent testing of lighter FB bullets, that my groups at 100-200 yds are better, most of the time, with 50-60gr FB bullets than with the longer 60-75gr boat tail's. But, it does still shoot the BT's very well, just not quite as tight as the FB's at shorter ranges. I think this should also hold true for the 6BR at 300yds as well.
My 6-.284 (1-10 twist) shoots far better at 100-300yds with flat-base bullets than it does boat-tails.
I would try the 80gr Fowler's (http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1308478/779476.htm) or the 80gr Bergers, which are listed on the Berger site under Varmint bullets (http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1308478/839547.htm) and use a 1-12 twist barrel. And if you want to try the lighter fare, the 1-12 throated for 80's will be far better suited for the task than a 1-8" throated for 105-115's.
Good luck, hope it works out for you.
Kenny
If you plan to shoot from position [highpower] then I would set it up for the 105/107 gr bullets with a 1-8 twist. Only an hour away from a range with longer distance isn't bad and you will appreciate the higher b.c. of the heavier bullets. They shoot well at 200-300yds too. Barrel of choice- Kreiger 26" - 28" med. Palma cont. Depending on what weight works best in offhand for you. I learned that lesson the hard way.
If it's a Highpower Tube rifle I beleive it will be a mistake to build a short slow twist barrel. I shoot an Elesio R5 for XTC / midrange and I just changed my first barrel after 2-1/2 years. They last a long time and you never know where you will end up shooting HP matches.
I would get a 1:8 and throat for 105 vld's. You can shoot 95's and 105's for full distance and 80-95grs for the reduced course stuff. you'd be a little short for 107-108's but the chamber may be better for the smaller bullets.
HP ain't BR - it's a iron sights score game, it's not a group game. A good 6BR will out group anything you can shoot. Fast twist barrels shoot little bullets better than slow twist barrels shoot heavy bullets
I shoot a 30" light Palma for for my XTC gun, longer sight radius.
Mike
I would get a 1:8 and throat for 105 vld's. You can shoot 95's and 105's for full distance and 80-95grs for the reduced course stuff. you'd be a little short for 107-108's but the chamber may be better for the smaller bullets.
HP ain't BR - it's a iron sights score game, it's not a group game. A good 6BR will out group anything you can shoot. Fast twist barrels shoot little bullets better than slow twist barrels shoot heavy bullets
I shoot a 30" light Palma for for my XTC gun, longer sight radius.
Mike
highmaster82
competitive highpower for 45 years
the one bid difference between XC highpower and benchrest benchrest is shot in 5 shot strings at a fixed target with lots of wind flags.you can read the wind with your flags and shoot fast when the conditions are good and use a super accurate light bullet, In xc you shoot in 20 shot strings and have to wait between shots for your target to be scored there are few wind flags you have to dope each shot so you need a high BC bullet to cut down wind drift some can hold X ring prone and some can't you shoot for the ten ring, a quote from many HP shooters ! i woulg swap some of those xs and 9s for all tens BW Davis
wow, thats a wealth of info, my head is spinning. Lets presume Im only, ever, shooting 300 yards. Im lucky to get to a weekend match at all, and if I do, its at my local range which is max 300 yard. I can understand the "what if" idea of getting an 8 twist, but I'll shoot this first barrel out for sure before I can likely shoot it longer than 300 yards. Therefore, based on the info here, Im leaning towards a 12 twist for 80 grain flat based bullets. Im going to order a reamer from ptg, so Im just trying to research as much as possible in the coming weeks. Under my circumstances, getting it throated for the 80g would be ideal, no?
One bit of confusion I currently have (amongst other bits) is krieger offers barrels with .236 or .237 bores. What is the logic in selecting one over the other?
Thanks again for everyone's input on this, so much to learn!
One bit of confusion I currently have (amongst other bits) is krieger offers barrels with .236 or .237 bores. What is the logic in selecting one over the other?
Thanks again for everyone's input on this, so much to learn!
Woolen ( sorry but I dont like these silly screen names)
Your getting alot of great equipment for NRA highpower across the course shooting. Great action great stock great barrel and certainly a great cartridge.
What type of sights are you going to put on the gun?
If I may sir suggest going with a faster twist barrel than 1:12. My suggestion is at a min 1:10 and vote for a 1;8 for the ability to shoot ALL the 6mm bullets. no point in holding your self down now is there. If you think the accuracy of the 105class bullets are not going to be Good enough may I say I have several groups in the .200 and one in the .129's with 105s. Good lord if thats not good enough for a 1 MOA X ring and a 2 MOA ten ring than I just dont know what to say. the 80's will shoot fine in the 1:8 too at 26".
Just my 2 cents.
RussT
Your getting alot of great equipment for NRA highpower across the course shooting. Great action great stock great barrel and certainly a great cartridge.
What type of sights are you going to put on the gun?
If I may sir suggest going with a faster twist barrel than 1:12. My suggestion is at a min 1:10 and vote for a 1;8 for the ability to shoot ALL the 6mm bullets. no point in holding your self down now is there. If you think the accuracy of the 105class bullets are not going to be Good enough may I say I have several groups in the .200 and one in the .129's with 105s. Good lord if thats not good enough for a 1 MOA X ring and a 2 MOA ten ring than I just dont know what to say. the 80's will shoot fine in the 1:8 too at 26".
Just my 2 cents.
RussT
Woolen
I just noticed that you have Distinguished,Mike,Highmaster82,and myself all High Master NRA highpowershooters giving you advice on the game we play. If I where totake up Benchrest I would ask a successful benchrest shooter's advice not a varmint hunter or highpowershooter's idea on what I should do. Not that they dont have alot of expereince with said cartridge its just there set up is diffrent as the game is diffrent. No disrespect to ANY of the others as we all learn from each other and that is why we are all here. Great group of guys. And gals too.
Also I believe you should call Mr Eliesio and ask him about the Freebore he suggests for running the rifle with the Mag length rounds you will need for Rapid fire.
I think you will super happy with this cartridge choice. Its alot of fun and easy.
RussT
I just noticed that you have Distinguished,Mike,Highmaster82,and myself all High Master NRA highpowershooters giving you advice on the game we play. If I where totake up Benchrest I would ask a successful benchrest shooter's advice not a varmint hunter or highpowershooter's idea on what I should do. Not that they dont have alot of expereince with said cartridge its just there set up is diffrent as the game is diffrent. No disrespect to ANY of the others as we all learn from each other and that is why we are all here. Great group of guys. And gals too.
Also I believe you should call Mr Eliesio and ask him about the Freebore he suggests for running the rifle with the Mag length rounds you will need for Rapid fire.
I think you will super happy with this cartridge choice. Its alot of fun and easy.
RussT
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