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Advice for a bad barrel

I am hoping for some collective advice and couldn't think of a better place to ask.

I bought a .30 cal barrel from a well known barrel maker back in July 2013 after making arrangements with a reputable gunsmith to have it chamber in .308 and installed on an action that had previously been blueprinted. I turned all the parts over to the smith in mid Aug and returned to his shop in mid October to shoot the rifle. I don't think its important but let me add that he is a 2 hour drive. There are other gunsmiths closer, but this gentleman is highly thought of in these parts.

At his range, we starting shooting in the new barrel...shoot once...clean once, etc, etc. We followed all the proper procedures but the gun refused to shoot. I brought 3 boxes of GMM (2- 168 + 1- 175) to use for the barrel break-in. It would not shoot groups less than 2" and most were bigger than that. The gunsmith suggested that perhaps the barrel would season as I shot it some more. So I brought the gun home and shot it 4 times at a local range using loads of RL15, Varget, and 2000MR with no better results. By this time the barrel had right at 150 rounds through it.

The gunsmith asked me to bring it back to him. He wanted to figure out what was wrong. He shot it again with the same results. He then decided to cut an inch off the barrel and recrown it. After completing that work, he shot it and called me and told me that he actually thought it was getting worse rather than better. He cleaned the rifle and re-shot it 5X using more GMM 168s with no luck. Its important to that at this point it is gunsmith clean with 5 rounds down the tube. He borescoped it and discovered pretty nasty copper fouling in the last 4 inches of the barrel just before the muzzle. This is worth noting because the borescope revealed that the fouling was occurring in the grooves of the barrel and not the lands. I believe he said that he had never seen that in his years of gunsmithing. He has been great throughout this ordeal.

I have since ordered another barrel from a different barrel make and having him chambered and installed it for me.

I have been in contact with the original barrel maker and explained the situation. Of course, they want to see the barrel and I have no problem whatsoever complying with their wishes once I go and get the barrel.

My question - If the barrel is found faulty, what can I reasonably expect from the barrel maker? Of course, its only reasonable to get a new barrel, but what about the money I spent to have it chambered, threaded, head-spaced, cerakoted, and skim bedded. I have right at $550 beyond the cost of the barrel. Can I expect to get any of that back?

Allow me to thank you in advance for your advice. I certainly appreciate it.

Thank you,

Gerald
 
I deal with all of the big name barrel makers daily. When you send the old barrel back to them, expect a new blank. They are all willing to make things right. Once a new blank leaves them and your smith has it, it's out of their control. For the chambering costs.....thats on you. Sorry to say that but it's a mess either way. You can bitch to them and PROVE your costs. Sometimes it's better to get the blank and move on. Not telling you what to do. Just what I have seen in the past.
 
X Ring Accuracy said:
I deal with all of the big name barrel makers daily. When you send the old barrel back to them, expect a new blank. They are all willing to make things right. Once a new blank leaves them and your smith has it, it's out of their control. For the chambering costs.....thats on you. Sorry to say that but it's a mess either way. You can bitch to them and PROVE your costs. Sometimes it's better to get the blank and move on. Not telling you what to do. Just what I have seen in the past.

OUCH!! :(
 
I appreciate your input. I honestly did not know what my expectations should be. I am grateful to know even tho I do not like it.

Thank you
 
OP, your characterization of the barrel and the gunsmith are vaguely complimentary, but specifics are usually better. If you bought a Krieger, Brux, Bartlein, Shilen, Rock, etc. barrel, then the idea that it shoots 2" groups is appalling, not to mention extremely unusual.

Your gunsmith, unless proven to know what he/she is doing, is more likely at fault than the barrel. In fact, I would say 10x more likely.

What's even more likely, perhaps, is the scope or whatever sighting system is being used.

It's way too easy to blame the barrel. However, it would be the last thing I would expect, unless you bought some crummy barrel from perhaps a crummy seller. This is where specifics are important.

The first thing I would do is double and triple check that the scope and mounting system is correctly installed and of known (excellent) performance. If all the gear is new, then you have introduced a big variable (no pun intended) into the equation. If you are new to rifle shooting, then you should have somebody else -- confirmed as highly skilled in accuracy rifle shooting -- shoot groups.

Why do I suggest this? Because a top-notch riflesmith wouldn't have let that rifle leave his/her shop with such issues, nor if they did, would they suggest a barrel would "season" (fer cryin' out loud, what baloney), nor would you be posting on this forum because the riflesmith would be handling the performance inquiry rather than you. And regarding fouling in the grooves being a first-time incident for him, that is really weird IMO. And the idea that fouling could result in 2"+ groups (at 100y, presumably, vs. 1,000y!) is just ridiculous. Which is why I think you have a clinker of a 'smith, and heaven help you, you're letting him have a crack at another barrel.

Can any of us imagine Jim Borden or Bob Green or Dwight Scott not handling such a situation, and having a customer post like this? I cannot, but I suppose stranger things have happened (like in the 2008 and 2012 elections).
 
I appreciate all the comments and will carefully consider everything I've read. I do want to clear up a couple of things.

The intent of my post is/was only to gather enough advice so I could set my expectations properly when I approach the barrel maker.
I am interested in 'exposing' anyone or maker. I just want to get my rifle back so I can resume shooting it. I have others, but I like my .308.

As for the barrel itself and the gentleman who did the work: the maker and the gunsmith are both recognized and recommended here in AccurateShooter and other internet sites as well. I have met and shot with this gunsmith. I know him personally and his work. As far as I am concerned, I am absolutely confident in his reputation and credentials. Did I make a mistake with asking him to chamber the 2nd barrel? Time will tell but I rather think not. I hope for the sake of my wallet and sanity that you are mistaken.

Thanks again to all who responded. I appreciate it.

Gerald
 
One thing I failed to mention in my last post is that between the gunsmith and myself, we systematically tested/checked the fail points. For instance, the scope used was a proven shooter with my old .308 barrel. I have since tested the tracking and consistency on another rifle without any problems.

I don't want to come off sounding like I am defending anything or anyone and its obvious now that more details would have been helpful. I only posted because I wanted to know if I could expect to recoup anything beyond a barrel.

Thank you
 
I have spoken with them and explained the situation as well as I know it. They do want to see the barrel and I will send it to them once it is back in my possession. I will get the barrel when I go for the rifle, which I hope is before the year ends.
 
Bad barrels happen from time to time. The better barrel makers acknowledge this and replace them readily. Some will even compensate the gunsmith for his work. I have re-barreled rifles since the early 1970s. in the late 1970s or early 1980s I had a custom barrel (buttoned) that was cracked length wise for 3" along the trailing edge of a land an groove. Luckily it did not blow up before being found. I had the barrel magnafluxed/xrayed by an engineering firm before sending it back to the manufacture. They were very good and replaced the barrel and compensated me for my cost.

A few years back I and a number of very reputable gunsmiths were using a well thought of barrel maker. We all got a batch of barrels that would not shoot. Many barrels were returned by many gunsmiths. I personally returned five and was never compensated one penny. I re-barreled all the customers guns with another manufactures barrels at my cost.

In the last year I encountered a barrel problem with another premium barrel maker. They acknowledged the problem and replaced all the barrels.

Most of the great barrel makers stand behind their barrels. They do not have control of the gunsmiths who chamber and finish them and must rely on their best judgment.

Nat Lambeth
 
geraldgee said:
As far as I am concerned, I am absolutely confident in his reputation and credentials. Did I make a mistake with asking him to chamber the 2nd barrel? Time will tell but I rather think not. I hope for the sake of my wallet and sanity that you are mistaken.

I hope I am mistaken too. :)

I suppose you could have gotten a bad batch of FGMM, unless you've confirmed it shoots well in other rifles. I've never once had unsatisfactory results with FGMM, but one time I bought some Remington 'Extended Range' .308 Win ammo, and it would not shoot better than 3" groups in a rifle that would shoot 1/2"-3/4" groups with FGMM.

I suppose Remington's rationale was that accuracy took a back seat to velocity, which is simply idiotic. If you miss, then velocity matters not at all.

Good luck solving your barrel mystery!
 
The rest of the story.
I wanted to follow up my original post with an brief account of where I am at today. As I mentioned previously, I ordered a 2nd barrel and had my gunsmith chamber and install the newest. I got my rifle during the last week of December. I tweaked my back over Thanksgiving and wasn't able to get to the range for several weeks.

While I was convalescing, I sent the suspect barrel back to its maker. One of the owners called me the day after he received it via UPS. He identified himself and immediately took full responsibility for the defective barrel. Having inspected the barrel, he told me that while the rifling and lapping were exactly what they expected from a barrel leaving their facility, he admitted despite all the safeguards in place a bad barrel will leave the facility and the one I sent back was definitely a bad barrel. It doesn't happen often, but it happened to me.

He apologized and offered to either send me another barrel or cut me a check. He really impressed me with his upfront willingness to take full responsibility and his insistence that I was satisfied. I took the check.

During the course of our conversation, he mentioned at least 3 times how well this defective barrel had been chambered. He was obviously impressed by the work done by my gunsmith. I know that some commented about their concerns regarding the work done by the smith. With the barrel in hand, the barrel facility owner had no concerns whatsoever.

As a final note, I finally got to shoot my .308 two weekends ago. I recorded groups ranging from .160 - .223 CTC using both Lapua and Winnie brass pushing 168 & 175 SMKs @ 100 yards. I couldn't be more satisfied.
 
Glad this story has a happy ending, Gerald, but two-shot groups don't count in competition, so please shoot some consecutive 5-shot groups and then post a pic of the target. ;)
 
Not sure of your barrel maker but I am going through a similar experience with Rock Creek. I had a 7mm barrel chambered in 280ai and spent 5 trips to the range and couldn't make it shoot and it was still copper fouling after 200 rounds. I contacted them, sent the barreled action to them, and they are making a new blank and chambering it themselves. Seems you can get a dud from any manufacturer but most are willing to admit their faults and try to make it right. Hate you had to pay double smithing fees though.
 
And just to ensure any that worry about Rock Creek, I have 12 rifles shooting and 6 in project status (yeah, I have to have something to do while job hunting) - anyway I have all brands of barrels in use and of the 12, the two most accurate are Rock Creek - on my project rifles, I just started barrel break-in of sorts on a 250 Sav Ackley on a RC 9-twist, 5r LIGHT sporter weight barrel - shot one shot to correct bore-sight and then shot three 'what the hell' shots out of curiosity and got three holes on top of each other measuring a .126 group with Nosler 115's - and this in a non-bedded HS Precision stock. My point is that bad barrels from the best barrel makers tend to be an anomaly . . . not a trend. For what it's worth :)
 

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