Action stiffness effects on precision

[FireMedic]

It seems like the trend lately for hunting rifles are these lightweight, skeletonized, receivers. The nanook, antix, and vesper come to mind.

Do you guys believe that some precision is being left on the table by going with one of these actions? Would a 1/2moa rifle become a 1/4moa rifle with a stiffer action?

Thoughts?

 

[SecondsCount]

Maybe but is also harder on the shooter to control the gun and recoil.

Then again, how accurate does a rifle need to be for big game? 2MOA?

 

[FireMedic]

No doubt a lighter rifle is harder to shoot then a heavier one….especially in a magnum cartridge.

But I’m talking how precision is affected by a more flexible action.

All else being equal, will a stiffer receiver shoot smaller?

My requirements for my hunting rifles are sub 3” groups at 600yds. No way would I even own a 2moa rifle.

 

[LVLAaron]

It seems like the trend lately for hunting rifles are these lightweight, skeletonized, receivers. The nanook, antix, and vesper come to mind.

Do you guys believe that some precision is being left on the table by going with one of these actions? Would a 1/2moa rifle become a 1/4moa rifle with a stiffer action?

Thoughts?

There's so little meat on some of the newest skeletonized actions... I have to wonder if hanging a barrel off the end of them is going to stress the scope body that's mounted on top of it.

 

[FireMedic]

There's so little meat on some of the newest skeletonized actions... I have to wonder if hanging a barrel off the end of them is going to stress the scope body that's mounted on top of it.

My thoughts as well. I know a guy I’ve done some work for, has had his parallax fail on a couple very high end scopes. This was on a 338 lapua imp on a skeletonized action. The scope manufacturer blamed it on the ARC rings and their torque specs.

I can’t help but think it might have been contributed to the action.

 

[LVLAaron]

Even a light barrel puts incredible stress on an action. If that action was in a chassis with "V" bedding and only 2 relatively small contact points, I bet you could measure how far the center of the action flexes with a cheap indicator

 

[rijndael]

Even a light barrel puts incredible stress on an action. If that action was in a chassis with "V" bedding and only 2 relatively small contact points, I bet you could measure how far the center of the action flexes with a cheap indicator

Thanks for volunteering to test this

 

[littlebuddybr]

Thanks for volunteering to test this

 

[LVLAaron]

If I had a mag fed hunting action, I'd be out there right now checking it.

 

[Will Henry]

Nobody is going to use one of the ultra lightweight actions for a BR or "F" class rifle, or even for a PRS rifle. For a hunting rifle, it probably won't make or break it.
If building a very light rifle, it is likely to be in a light caliber as well, so there will be less drama when the trigger is pulled anyway.
My primary hunting rifle uses a Mauser 98 action (flex 'r' us) and still shoots in moa or less. I've lost no sleep worrying about it.
To the original question, I think a stiffer receiver is better but, after a certain point, more doesn't matter; there are other factors. I had a Shilen DGA action which was hell for stout. Much stiffer than a 40X. Nonetheless, I could never get it to shoot with my 40X's or even with the 700's. This in spite of many barrels and a couple stocks. Something about that action produced a serious vacuum. In other words, it sucked! WH

 

[rijndael]

Nobody is going to use one of the ultra lightweight actions for a BR or "F" class rifle, or even for a PRS rifle.

We have 2 local guys running the anTi-x actions in PRS.

I would be careful painting disciplines with wide brushes, what the top tier run isn't necessarily what the average joe runs.

 

[SKWERLZ]

My thoughts as well. I know a guy I’ve done some work for, has had his parallax fail on a couple very high end scopes. This was on a 338 lapua imp on a skeletonized action. The scope manufacturer blamed it on the ARC rings and their torque specs.

I can’t help but think it might have been contributed to the action.

That’s a lot of cartridge for a light action especially with a lapua boltface cartridge and body, in my opinion not optimal for a standard diameter action and barrel shank and tenon if your running some pressure.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The only way I could see it hurting is if it flexed enough to un seat a lug. With a good bedding job I dont see this happening. With hunting weight barrel I do not see this even being close. I have measured action flex with large 1.250 and 1.450 barrels on br actions. But not light hunting stuff. But here is the thing I tell customers when action flex comes up. Lay your hand on a table, put the recoil lug on your hand and push down the tang of the action with your other hand to lift up the barrel. How much pressure is on the front of the action at the lug? Not much, do you think your bending the action with your hands?

 

[Carl S]

If the action is bedded or not what's going to flex or move first,the action itself or the two bolts that hold it into the stock.if the light weight action shot consistently good on paper I wouldn't worry about it.if you put strain gauges on a solid and a light weight action,same barrel,calibre,stock.then compare the two.

 

[FireMedic]

That’s a lot of cartridge for a light action especially with a lapua boltface cartridge and body, in my opinion not optimal for a standard diameter action and barrel shank and tenon if your running some pressure.

The bat has large lugs, and a 1 1/8-16tpi tenon. probably one of the best sized hunting actions for high pressure lapua loads

 

[davidjoe]

I’d put those actions in the category of fly fishing rods Very specialized, perfect for their quarry, probably actually necessary for a certain kind of self-contained all day stalk.

The barrels that are coupled to those actions are the real reason they look like that. It doesn’t make any sense to accept the accuracy compromises and limitations of very light weight and generally shorter 22-24 inch barrels, if the action and/or stock is going to soak up all the creative weight savings, anyway.

I caught the pre internet heyday of gun magazines, and the editors said clearly that a pound or two of weight savings makes a huge difference that they only grew to appreciate sometime around retirement age.

I don’t think they are actually the weak link in a true mountain rifle setup, I think the barrel would be. If you screwed one of those barrels onto an F-Class rifle, it likely isn’t going to shoot its 2-4 shots much differently, and those barrels aren’t made for long shot strings.

On the other hand, if you screwed a 33” inch straight barrel onto such a skeletonized alloy type action, and put it to Fclass use, I’d worry about both its accuracy and longevity. By longevity, I mean that if it starts flexing, the bolt and action lugs are going to start wearing unevenly both when cycling it and in absorbing recoil impulse.

 

[Dimner]

No doubt a lighter rifle is harder to shoot then a heavier one….especially in a magnum cartridge.

But I’m talking how precision is affected by a more flexible action.

All else being equal, will a stiffer receiver shoot smaller?

My requirements for my hunting rifles are sub 3” groups at 600yds. No way would I even own a 2moa rifle.

Thank you for writing that. I don't know why people are always talking 1-2moa is fine enough for hunting. If I'm hunting/shooting at 500 yards. A 5 inch group is not acceptable to me. The margin of error is far too High for a clean kill. I'm not gonna settle for poor accuracy and take the chance of wounding an animal so it can die over hours of agony.

 

[SKWERLZ]

The bat has large lugs, and a 1 1/8-16tpi tenon. probably one of the best sized hunting actions for high pressure lapua loads

Those two actions are atypical of most others, the bigger tenon and footprint.

 

[jpmimproved]

Thank you for writing that. I don't know why people are always talking 1-2moa is fine enough for hunting. If I'm hunting/shooting at 500 yards. A 5 inch group is not acceptable to me. The margin of error is far too High for a clean kill. I'm not gonna settle for poor accuracy and take the chance of wounding an animal so it can die over hours of agony.

Hunting in central Texas, you have to work to shoot a deer over 200 yards. A lot of the hunting could be done with a 4 MOA rifle. Not my preference, but I think there are a lot more people shooting deer at 50 yards than 500

 

[Conrad]

Reviving this thread as I had exact same question. Motivation is I have a Terminus kratos light in a manners PH with proof carbon barrels in 7 PRC and 300 PRC. I have considered getting a heavy long action stock and long heavy steel barrel for semi-elr stuff and shooting that action more. However I have a light action and the terminus has shorter barrel tenons. Maybe moot considering shoulder lock up and how many threads it really takes to achieve proper torque and bolt tension.