Accuracy Ramblings... your thoughts

[TommyD11730]

So I shoot pretty much 1 distance, 200Y. At the conclusion of last season I shot a average in the .4s. I didn't think it was 2 terrible for caliber 223 and a Savage action, criterion barrel and just a bit of work done to the action.

In the name of smaller groups I made some changes this season. Out went the Savage action to be replaced by a Zermatt Origin. Same Criterion Barrel and MDT chassis (just Remington pattern). Went from a Jart to a Trigger Tech. Finally traded up from a Midas Tac to a Athlon 15-60. So now I can see those 223 holes at 200Y just fine.

Heading into July my accuracy has not improved. Granted it has been a bit more windy this year.
Tried a few different loads and nope... the pet one seems to still be my best bet.

So for those still reading this what am I getting at? Discounting myself as the weak link I feel the Criterion barrel is at its accuracy limits.

I'm getting ready to purchase a new 30BR barrel for this rifle. Would it be a poor decision to go prefit vs having a smith turn me out one? I mean should say a Shilen prefit 30BR barrel shoot nearly as good as another name brand?

Thanks guys!

 

[Evan]

So I shoot pretty much 1 distance, 200Y. At the conclusion of last season I shot a average in the .4s. I didn't think it was 2 terrible for caliber 223 and a Savage action, criterion barrel and just a bit of work done to the action.

In the name of smaller groups I made some changes this season. Out went the Savage action to be replaced by a Zermatt Origin. Same Criterion Barrel and MDT chassis (just Remington pattern). Went from a Jart to a Trigger Tech. Finally traded up from a Midas Tac to a Athlon 15-60. So now I can see those 223 holes at 200Y just fine.

Heading into July my accuracy has not improved. Granted it has been a bit more windy this year.
Tried a few different loads and nope... the pet one seems to still be my best bet.

So for those still reading this what am I getting at? Discounting myself as the weak link I feel the Criterion barrel is at its accuracy limits.

I'm getting ready to purchase a new 30BR barrel for this rifle. Would it be a poor decision to go prefit vs having a smith turn me out one? I mean should say a Shilen prefit 30BR barrel shoot nearly as good as another name brand?

Thanks guys!

The 30BR will do more for you than the name of the barrelmaker. I wouldn’t hesitate to get the prefit.

 

[Sniper338]

Barrel is the difference. I've had good barrels with mediocre actions. As long as the actions straight any fairly tru, threads are cut straight everything aligns... id say the barrel matters more than action.

I'm being bias, bit id buy a cut rifled real man's barrel and not a profit shilen.

 

[tmwinds]

If I had a Savage .223 that was consistently shooting .4 groups at 200 yards I don’t think I’d change anything.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

I’m a do it your self er prefit guy out to 1k and pleased with the results and like others say you can a good one or a bad one no matter who’s names on it

 

[Fast14riot]

The 223 is easy to shoot and load for, but very tedious to load exceptionally well. The CBI button barrel can and will shoot as well as you can load and hold. But in general long skinny cartridges are much more difficult to load to exacting standards compared to short fat ones. So the difference you'll see from the 30br is not from the action or barrel. Maybe consider the 222rem as well.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Are you shooting 3-shot or 5-shot groups?

 

[mmcu]

Are you shooting 3-shot or 5-shot groups?

And, is the OP talking inches, or MOA?

 

[TommyD11730]

Are you shooting 3-shot or 5-shot groups?

5 shot groups. I don't throw away "fliers".

 

[TommyD11730]

And, is the OP talking inches, or MOA?

MOA. I wish my groups avg for the season were .4xx"s.

 

[TommyD11730]

If I had a Savage .223 that was consistently shooting .4 groups at 200 yards I don’t think I’d change anything.

If the only remaining Savage parts are the action and bolt, is it really a Savage?

 

[lawman29]

No where in this thread do we know the reloading particulars......

 

[BoydAllen]

To improve from where you are you need to look at multiple factors. Every part of the system needs to be optimized. Have you bedded your actions into their chassis? What sort of wind flags are you using and how many? Describe your bench, rest and bags. If you are trying for competition performance, should you not be shooting a trigger in the two ounce range? How is your rifle balanced?

 

[TommyD11730]

No where in this thread do we know the reloading particulars......

Ok, I'll do my best to describe what I'm doing.
Components are Lapua brass, CCI primers and Berger 80.5's over Varget.
My SDs are low teens with my ES in the 40s. From what I have read that's about "nomal" for 223.

My reloading process is..
Decap
Anneal
Tumble in Rice
Full length resize, Forster die, no expander.
Clean pockets, chamfer necks, brush inside of cases.
Mandrel case necks
Trim to length
Tumble in rice (again).
Prime
Drop charges on FX120 scale
Seat projectiles.

 

[TommyD11730]

To improve from where you are you need to look at multiple factors. Every part of the system needs to be optimized. Have you bedded your actions into their chassis? What sort of wind flags are you using and how many? Describe your bench, rest and bags. If you are trying for competition performance, should you not be shooting a trigger in the two ounce range? How is your rifle balanced?

I'm heading to work, I'll do my best to answer your questions later. Thank you.

 

[tmwinds]

If the only remaining Savage parts are the action and bolt, is it really a Savage?

Once a Savage, always a Savage. You seem to have an exceptional one. A consistent .4 MOA at 200 yards speaks highly of the rifle, your load development, and shooting skills. I like the way you averaged your groups over a season in all conditions. No cherry picking of the lucky groups.

 

[K22]

Discounting myself as the weak link I feel the Criterion barrel is at its accuracy limits.

In my journey to continue to improve as precision practical field shooter, I have had rifles re-barreled with match barrels, bedding jobs done, actions blue printed, triggers optimized, and reloads fine-tuned with the best components I could obtain. All these aided in better precision but I began to understand that I was the limiting factor along with environmental effects.

In other words, to advance, I had to master the fundamentals of field marksmanship and learn how to deal with environmental effects. This could only be accomplished by dedicated, structured, and analytic practice. I went from the 80's % as an effective field shooter to the 90's %. It was hard work, but the results were undeniable. This is not what most new shooters want to hear - they want to buy a fix - that's understandable because that's our culture today.

Good equipment is essential for performance but at some point, at least for me, it had it limits. So, I abandon the equipment race and focused on becoming a better marksman and it resulted in significant performance improved.

PS: I learned this vital lesson in 30 years of competitive NRA precision pistol shooting.

 

[TommyD11730]

In my journey to continue to improve as precision practical field shooter, I have had rifles re-barreled with match barrels, bedding jobs done, actions blue printed, triggers optimized, and reloads fine-tuned with the best components I could obtain. All these aided in better precision but I began to understand that I was the limiting factor along with environmental effects.

In other words, to advance, I had to master the fundamentals of field marksmanship and learn how to deal with environmental effects. This could only be accomplished by dedicated, structured, and analytic practice. I went from the 80's % as an effective field shooter to the 90's %. It was hard work, but the results were undeniable. This is not what most new shooters want to hear - they want to buy a fix - that's understandable because that's our culture today.

Good equipment is essential for performance but at some point, at least for me, it had it limits. So, I abandon the equipment race and focused on becoming a better marksman and it resulted in significant performance improved.

PS: I learned this vital lesson in 30 years of competitive NRA precision pistol shooting.

No truer words ever spoken. Thanks for sharing.

 

[JFrank]

My Savage and Criterion shot very well, the 6 br cartridge made the biggest difference.

Jim

 

[Texas Solo]

I love my 2 Shillen barrels. Both are .250" at 100. Prefits on a Savage #12 actions. .223 & 6 dasher. I had a Criterion 308 that I never got the way I wanted it.
What twist rate in your Criterion? For .223 I use 1/7 with 80gr Bergers, 24.5 Varget. Seating is .005" off. I'm at 1/2 moa at 600yds.