A question regarding the "theory" of neck tension....

[jlow]

Some people think if you try your very best in reloading you are not actually interested in shooting but only reloading…..

I can honestly say that if I can do “consistent sub-half-minute groups with ES under 20 fps” doing what he is doing, I would be more than happy to have a fire sale of all the fancy equipment I have. The sad truth is I can’t.

So how many of you can do it using the bare minimum equipment he list? If it is so easy, there has got to be a bunch of your guys out there, speak up as I would love to learn from you. This is a serious request.

 

[Raythemanroe]

jlow, I think you can, Remember sell cheap!

 

[Raythemanroe]

easy only shoot one shot groups!

 

[jlow]

This is the sad thing about this board. It’s a technical board with lots of good knowledgeable people, but when someone actually do something technical, only the technophobs seem to speak up. :

If you are jealous that I have equipment that you can’t afford, live with it as it’s real life which is no matter who you are, or how much money you have, someone will have better equipment. Learn to appreciate what you have and what you can do with what you have, that way you will actually enjoy your life instead of being miserable….

 

[Raythemanroe]

I probably go to just as much pains as you, and I was just joking by the way! i don't think anyone has replied saying they don't go to great lengths I just think some of us said not to the Hundred thousandths! Thats all!

 

[jlow]

Well that’s a relief, I thought for a moment that I was among a bunch of slam bang load and shoot them up guys and all the precision reloaders had left town! About that hundred thousands, you might check what I said in Reply# 13….

At face value, I can understand why people think even ten thousands is esotheric because it is such as small number, but the fact is if you ask someone what his hold is and they say 1.5 thousands, that last significant number is in fact ten thousands.

On the flip side, if you ask a mechanic how many pounds of pressure they put in your tire and they said thirty something instead of two digit accuracy like 32 pounds, you might be excused if you think they were an idiot. So why is it when we are talking about something important like neck tension that we get all bent out of shape when someone says 1.5 thousands instead of one something thousands?

 

[Raythemanroe]

Well you clearly have good hold on consistency! I can tell you all of the gains I have gotten thus far has not been with expensive barrels and actions but with my consistency in loading! some gains were made just changing dies but all was in the pains of loading! Matt Kline was the one that broke the ten shot record group score with a 2.815 inch group! Matt shared some details of his reloading process with Assist. Editor Jason Baney. This may surprise you. Matt anneals his 300 WSM brass after every firing. The necks are turned to .0135″ wall thickness for a .338″-neck chamber. Interestingly, Matt does not meplat-trim or point his Berger bullets. However, he pre-sorts the bullets very thoroughly, segregating them by .001″ variance in both bearing surface and overall bullet length. You need extremely consistent bullet-to-bullet BCs to shoot record groups like Matt did.

 

[WyleWD]

I have a more theoretical question: why is neck tension determined and stated in terms of the O.D. of the case neck, instead of the I.D.? It seems to me that the I.D. would be the more precise and accurate number, considering that it is the inside surface of the neck that contacts the bullet and "grips" it. Also, the math to get the I.D. is simple: O.D. minus 2x the wall thickness. I have been having real problems figuring out the proper neck tension, and I think it is because I'm not getting why all of the methods of figuring it involve measuring O.D. in some way. If my bullet has a diameter of .307, why not figure neck tension based on I.D., and know that it should be x thousands less than the bullet diameter? I am sure that I'm missing something (probably a very obvious something).

You can try working that way (ID) but reply #4 from ReedG is what most of us use. You have to know what the neck diameter is in your chamber and keep that in mind, thense most of us in the real world use OD, so as not to get the fit of a loaded round too tight in the chamber, yet hold the desired amount of tension on the bullet to keep it where you want it. There is a happy medium to each rifle and each shooter.

Just don't try to over complicate it. One has enough to think about when competition shooting without worrying about the chemical reaction and make up of the powder, and molecular weights of each bullet, case, source and purity of the lead core, etc etc. Just Have fun man. WD

 

[jlow]

Well you clearly have good hold on consistency! I can tell you all of the gains I have gotten thus far has not been with expensive barrels and actions but with my consistency in loading! some gains were made just changing dies but all was in the pains of loading! Matt Kline was the one that broke the ten shot record group score with a 2.815 inch group! Matt shared some details of his reloading process with Assist. Editor Jason Baney. This may surprise you. Matt anneals his 300 WSM brass after every firing. The necks are turned to .0135″ wall thickness for a .338″-neck chamber. Interestingly, Matt does not meplat-trim or point his Berger bullets. However, he pre-sorts the bullets very thoroughly, segregating them by .001″ variance in both bearing surface and overall bullet length. You need extremely consistent bullet-to-bullet BCs to shoot record groups like Matt did.

Well thanks! I am trying my best but I can’t say I have this thing licked, a bit at a time and I am glad to hear others doing their best and succeeding.

I guess I look at precision shooting as a multi part thing – that being the gun, the reloads, and the shooter. A good gun I can buy, the reloads and the shooting I have to learn. I understand that a great gun and great reload does not a great shooter make i.e. you have to be able to shoot well. Absolutely no argument there from me. But you also cannot have a great gun, mediocre reloads and learn to shoot. It just does not work with reloads that confound you because they shoot erratically…. If you miss, how do you know if it is your technique or the reloads?

In my mind, the easiest part (at least for me) is the gun, the next part is the reloading (not that I am anywhere there yet), and the hardest part is the shooting. Just doing my best to take this one at a time , and yes it kills me when people keep telling me to stop wasting time learning to reload and I should be out getting trigger time – sorry but that does not compute…. ???

 

[WyleWD]

and yes it kills me when people keep telling me to stop wasting time learning to reload and I should be out getting trigger time – sorry but that does not compute…. ???

JMHO, I don't think you are wasting your time learning to reload. That is important, but there is NO substitute for GOOD constructive competitive trigger time..... both under ideal and less than ideal conditions. You can't learn to shoot from a keyboard. You might even find out that this whole thing isn't as complicated as you think. May not compute.... but as the GPS thing says..... recalculate. WD

 

[DanConzo]

jlow-Someday going that extra mile will pay-off for you, if it hasn't already and what you said about getting the most out of what you have and can afford makes a lot of sense, at least in my experience.

 

[jlow]

jlow-Someday going that extra mile will pay-off for you, if it hasn't already and what you said about getting the most out of what you have and can afford makes a lot of sense, at least in my experience.

Thanks bud! Although I am certainly not there, the things I have learned and the advances I have made has been a big plus for me!

 

[jlow]

and yes it kills me when people keep telling me to stop wasting time learning to reload and I should be out getting trigger time – sorry but that does not compute…. ???

JMHO, I don't think you are wasting your time learning to reload. That is important, but there is NO substitute for GOOD constructive competitive trigger time..... both under ideal and less than ideal conditions. You can't learn to shoot from a keyboard. You might even find out that this whole thing isn't as complicated as you think. May not compute.... but as the GPS thing says..... recalculate. WD

I agree in many ways. Despite my frequent micrometer-yielding talk and retirement status , it might surprise people that I actually participate in the shooting sport more than the average Joe. Took high score in my division in an IDPA match last week, and second in the last 2-gun match. I have also won most of the shorter range rifle completion that I participate in although done less well in long range rifle since that is relatively new to me and as mentioned earlier - I am in the learning state there.

I of course shoot all my reloads but also a strong believer that if you go out to shoot, you should be enjoying it but also learning something from the experience or you are just making expensive loud noise. I only talk about reloading here because I want to do well in my shooting and of course this is the “Reloading forum”! 8)