Neck Turning Problems

[Darth_Doug]

Howdy Folks,
I am new to neck turning and I am wrecking brass faster than I can replace it.

I have a BullBerry 6mm PPC Match barrel for my encore which chamber cast the neck area at 0.266 I.D.

I full length sized lapua .220 russian with a Redding 6mm PPC die and turned the necks to .263.

After the first fire forming the I.D. of the cases are .2440-.2445 and will not hold bullets. The O.D.'s are .2645 The die does not touch the neck O.D.'s now either.

So... I started over and turned some more to .265 O.D.'s. They fit into the action until I loaded powder and bullet. Of course I didn't find this out until I was at the range and the first cartridge stuck going in. ,I also learned to always bring a cleaning rod or similar with you to the range.)

At this point I decide to call in the cavalry.
Can anyone help me understand what I am doing wrong?

 

[outlawsix]

I'll throw this out there. Are you using a sizing die that takes neck bushings? If not since you turned the brass. There isn't enough neck thickness left to size properly.

Hopefully you are using a neck sizing bushing die. If not get one. Load a bullet in a turned case. Then order bushing starting at .002 smaller than the OD you measured on a loaded round. Get additional neck sizing bushings down to .006 smaller than the OD.

This should take care of your problem.

 

[Kodiak99317]

You should remove the firing pin from the bolt and make sure the empty case fits the chamber before loading it. The bolt should have very little resistance closing on an empty case. If it does not fit after your initial sizing, smoke the case to see were it is hitting. Even pushing the shoulder down more may not make it fit. It could be in the base or the body area. It sounds like you should have clarence, but... I always do this setting up the sizing die, even on fired cases, sizing just enough so there is slight resistance on closing the bolt.

 

[mikecr]

Let's get to the details here with correct terminology.

You say you "turned the necks to .263"
By this you mean you turned the necks to .010" thick, and with bullets measuring .243 +,2x.010), you measure .263 loaded necks.
Is this right? If so, this is ok.

On firing in a .266nk chamber, the fired necks come out measuring .2645"
So the 263 necks expanded on firing and sprung back a bit. This is normal.

.2645-,.010x2) = .2445ID, this is what it is.
Unless fitted, necks have to be sized after firing..

What is the problem with your plan?
The wrong die, or bushing?
If so, I'll say you're way too far on this path to be wondering about something so basic.
You are In fact, just shy of killing yourself.

 

[Darth_Doug]

Fear not, I am not about to die. There is a veritable plethora of experience available here to help thwart any misfortune.

The die set is correct for 6mm PPC, there are no O.D. bushings.

The .263 and .265 O.D.'s were measured without bullets seated.

Trials on the bench this evening have shown me that:
the .263 becomes .264 with a bullet seated
the .265 becomes .266 with bullet, sans no fit.

I have tweaked my neck turner to make .2645 and they become .2655 with bullet seated. these will chamber in the action with no force, and are as close as I can get to .266 and still chamber a case, bullet seated, no primer.

Am I correct in thinking that with the neck O.D. closer fit to the .266 chamber I.D. my case won't stretch out as much and I will be more likely to preserve a case I.D. which will grip a bullet after firing?

 

[Kodiak99317]

Sounds like you are really close and it is time to fire one round in that chamber. I also think you are very close to a fitted case situation here. I have found fitted cases shoot good for a short time, then you will have group size issues due to case hardening. I was running 3 to 4 ten thou clerance in my .335 nk full HBR 308 at one time. Give yourself at least 1 to 2 thou neck clerance to be safe. Also, get yourself a neck sizing bushing die and a bushing to size the case down in the neck 2 to 3 thou more than the fired case size measures and this will hold the bullet.

 

[outlawsix]

"The die set is correct for 6mm PPC, there are no O.D. bushings. "

If you have a turned neck chamber I would highly suggest a neck sizing die with a few different neck bushings.

By the way what brand of dies are you using. I'm just curious since you say they are correct. Even factory chambers can benefit from using neck bushing dies.

 

[janderson0]

Hey Doug,

Read what these guys are saying.

When neck turning the OD dia of the brass has little meaning, what you need to measure is neck thickness. What turning tool are you using? and don't you need to use a mandrel to open the brass to use the turning tool? Then size the brass when done?

Also really sounds like your size die is meant for use with no-turn brass, and you really need bushing dies for your smaller than stock neck.

Jim

 

[Darth_Doug]

I'm listening!

What wall thickness should I aim for? Based on that I will order a bushing die.

I was using Redding. Who is recommended in bushing dies?

Thanks a bunch for all the help.

 

[outlawsix]

I have some Redding dies. As well as a custom Harrell's die.

 

[janderson0]

A good place to start is a loaded round about 002 under chamber. Measure a bullet and calc what neck you need to get there. Different lots of same ammo might be different!

Example: Tonight I'm having problems with some 224 bullets that measure closer to 225 than 224, and I'm getting too close with some cases to chamber the rounds.

Redding makes good bushing dies and come in both neck and full Length. In my br I use a bushing 001 under loaded round, but have the next two sizes smaller bushings on hand.

Jim

 

[Darth_Doug]

Excellent. Thanks for the help!

Now where did I put that Midway catalog?

 

[Kodiak99317]

What wall thickness should I aim for? Based on that I will order a bushing die. I was using Redding. Who is recommended in bushing dies?

Back when I shot a 6 PPC with a .262 nk, I used a .259 bushing and once the brass got thinner over time, I used a .258. I would turn my necks to .0086" to .009". I used Wilson dies and an arbour press.

http://www.lewilson.com/

.0086"*2+.243=.2602 so 1.8 thou clearance.
.009*2+.243=.261 so 1.0 thou clearance

In your case, .265-.243/2 = .011 thick necks, but there is no clearance so .0105" thick * 2 + .243" = .264" and I'd use a .262" bushing for it, plus order a .261" as well. Even .010" thick would work out to .263" and give you 2 thou clearance.

As others have said, measure the bullets, they are not .243", some are smaller, some are bigger! My 105 VLD Lapua's measure .2426" at the fattest point and most flat base bullets are around .2431" to .2434" at the pressure ring,the base of the bullet)

Thinner necks crack and dent/deform easier so ...

Hope this helps...

 

[rayjay]

A no-turn-neck 6mmBR would have been perfect for this application.