A Question about Powder and Bullet Combinations.

[BobABQ]

I am both new to this board and to reloading so please understand if this seems obvious.

So, far I have not strayed from the bullet choice and the powder used to test it in a reloading manual.

My question can I use mix and match bullets and powders?

For example lets say I am reloading for a .308 Winchester and using Hornady 168 grain ELD-M bullets but I want to use IMR 4064 powder. The Hornady manual doesn't show it being tested but the Nosler manual for a 168 grain RDF does show that the Nosler bullet was rested with IMR 4064 powder.

Can I use the IMR 4064 with the Hornady ELD-M bullet?

I hope that my example is understandable as is my question.

 

[joshb]

Short answer: Yes, but..........start all testing at the low load and work up. Different bullets will have different bearing surfaces and every gun is a little different. Read here and do a search for “pressure signs”. Most of the time, manuals won’t list all the powders that can be used in a certain cartridge. They do try to list the powders that gave them the best results. Remember that manuals are written by Men and Men have opinions on which are the best powders to use.
Personally, I don’t pick a load at or near the MAX published data. Almost all of my good loads are in the middle or a little heavier than the middle of the published loads. Search “node” here. I find an accurate node below max because it’s easier on my brass , gun and I like a little margin of safety. Being new to reloading, it would be prudent for you to do the same, while you gain experience. Lots of good info can be found using the search function. If you don’t find what you need, ask! We’ll help you out!
Welcome to the forum!
Josh

 

[SSL]

First, welcome to the site. Never be afraid to ask a question. We all started where you are. There is a wealth of info on here and good people for resources.

@joshb is right on the money. Below is a screen capture from the Hodgdon site (manufacturers of IMR powders now). Still not the exact bullets, but as you can see you should be good starting at perhaps 41.0 grains and work up in small increments. Maybe 1/2 grain at a time. Watch carefully for pressure signs at each level (sticky bolt lift, flattened primers and etc.) before going higher. Notice that the maximum loads in each case are compressed loads. You will note that these loads pretty much fall in line with Nosler's minimum of 40.5 grains and maximum of 45.0 grains of IMR 4064. You will need to determine what is right for your rifle and bullet combo. Just take it slow and easy. Don't hurt your rifle, or worse, yourself!

Twist: 1:12.000"
Barrel Length: 24.000"
Trim Length: 2.005"
BULLET WEIGHT
168 GR. BAR TTSX BT
CASE
WINCHESTER
PRIMER
FEDERAL 210M, LARGE RIFLE MATCH

	Starting Load		Maximum Loads
	Manufacturer	Powder		Bullet Diam.	C.O.L		Grs.	Vel. (ft/s)	Pressure		Grs.	Vel. (ft/s)	Pressure
	IMR	IMR 4064	OUT OF STOCK	0.308"	2.800"		43.0	2,539	47,400 PSI		45.0C	2,743	58,900 PSI

BULLET WEIGHT
168 GR. SIE HPBT
CASE
WINCHESTER
PRIMER
FEDERAL 210M, LARGE RIFLE MATCH

	Starting Load		Maximum Loads
	Manufacturer	Powder		Bullet Diam.	C.O.L		Grs.	Vel. (ft/s)	Pressure		Grs.	Vel. (ft/s)	Pressure
	IMR	IMR 4064	OUT OF STOCK	0.308"	2.800"		41.5	2,518	43,800 PSI		45.9C	2,766	58,800 PSI

 

[std7mag]

Good advice from both above!

When i'm doing my powder charge test, i look at the base of every cartridge.
I'm looking for shiny areas, and any ejector marks, along with feeling for heavy bolt lift.

Start low & be safe!
If something doesn't seem right, chances are it isn't.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

If you look at the number of different components, bullets, powder, brass and primers, it would takes years and billions of dollars to test every combinations, could even take several barrels per caliber. Cost prohibited. Some manuals only contain data for their bullets or powder brand.

Powders vary in burning rate/speed. Lighter weight bullets in a caliber ususlly do best with a faster powder. Heavy for caliber usually do better wit a slower powder. Medium powders usually have a wider usage range. Note I used the word "usually" several times. Case capacity vs bullet diameter also affects powder speed usage.

Similar bullets of same weight can be interchanged just always back off the load and work up. Two different brands of bullet may weight the same and look the same. But one may be just slightly bigger in diameter or have a slightly longer bearing surface either of which could raise pressure.

There are a couple powders with the same number in their name. They are close in their burning rate but not interchangeable on a one for one basis.

Until you get more experience stick with medium loads that are found in manuals. Verify any load you read about on the internet. If your going hunting for Grizzly bear, buy some factory ammo. Rule # 1, always start low and work up. Even a new can of powder of same type can be a little slower or faster than the last can. With today's component shortages you will have to do some research for using what you can find available.

Frank

 

[BobABQ]

Thank you everyone!

My approach to find a suitable load has been to not deviate from the published data, hence my question about using different powders/ bullet combinations with the same weight bullet. I start at the published minimum and go in half grain increments and I always stop a half grain below max.
I guess I am a bit risk averse when reloading. For a couple of my rifles, a 1980 Swedish Mauser and a M-1 Garand, I just select a load from the midpoint of the published data and call it good. I have no desire to stress those actions. I just want to hit some steel plates with the old gals.

Thank you again everyone.

 

[K22]

Short answer: Yes, but..........start all testing at the low load and work up. Different bullets will have different bearing surfaces and every gun is a little different. Read here and do a search for “pressure signs”. Most of the time, manuals won’t list all the powders that can be used in a certain cartridge. They do try to list the powders that gave them the best results. Remember that manuals are written by Men and Men have opinions on which are the best powders to use.
Personally, I don’t pick a load at or near the MAX published data. Almost all of my good loads are in the middle or a little heavier than the middle of the published loads. Search “node” here. I find an accurate node below max because it’s easier on my brass , gun and I like a little margin of safety. Being new to reloading, it would be prudent for you to do the same, while you gain experience. Lots of good info can be found using the search function. If you don’t find what you need, ask! We’ll help you out!
Welcome to the forum!
Josh

This is excellent advice.

 

[CharlieNC]

Quickload provides excellent guidance for any combination except primer brand. Well worth the cost in component savings.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I am both new to this board and to reloading so please understand if this seems obvious.

So, far I have not strayed from the bullet choice and the powder used to test it in a reloading manual.

My question can I use mix and match bullets and powders?

Yes, you can mix and match bullets and powders. Just be aware of powder burn rates as some powders can be too fast and some can be to slow. And, as you can probably see in those reloading manuals, it's good to be aware of how different bullet weights effect the amount of powder one should use.

For example lets say I am reloading for a .308 Winchester and using Hornady 168 grain ELD-M bullets but I want to use IMR 4064 powder. The Hornady manual doesn't show it being tested but the Nosler manual for a 168 grain RDF does show that the Nosler bullet was rested with IMR 4064 powder.

Can I use the IMR 4064 with the Hornady ELD-M bullet?

I hope that my example is understandable as is my question.

Yes, you can use IMR-4064 with Hornaday ELD-M bullets. Using various reloading manuals is a good practice to help you find a place for your starting loads. With that in mind, you might find a good starting point around 41.0 grs. for a 168 gr ELD-M???

In any case, always be careful about using anyone else's load as you just don't know the condition of the powder that they've used, and probably not the specs of their chamber or the environmental condition that the cartridge's were fired in either. They may have the very same chamber dimensions and the lot of powder from the manufacturer that you have, but their use/storage of that powder may have been in a humid environment that allowed their powder to absorb a lot of moisture, which means an amount of powder used for the particular velocity would be greater than what you might experience. For example, they may have "a good load" with a cartridge COAL at 2.800 using 41.0 gr of powder and get 2600 fps, but you find 41.0 grs with the same COAL is giving you high chamber pressure with 2700 fps . . . just because of a difference in moisture content). These are just some things to be thinking about as you ask for guidance as a novice reloaded.

 

[joshb]

Thank you everyone!

My approach to find a suitable load has been to not deviate from the published data, hence my question about using different powders/ bullet combinations with the same weight bullet. I start at the published minimum and go in half grain increments and I always stop a half grain below max.
I guess I am a bit risk averse when reloading. For a couple of my rifles, a 1980 Swedish Mauser and a M-1 Garand, I just select a load from the midpoint of the published data and call it good. I have no desire to stress those actions. I just want to hit some steel plates with the old gals.

Thank you again everyone.

Hey! I have a few Swedes. I use H100V in them. I have had great results with it in my gun.

 

[joshb]

Hey! I have a few Swedes. I use H100V in them. I have had great results with it in my gun.

Hey! I had the pleasure to shoot today. I thought you might benefit from seeing some groups I shot with a factory Tikka T3 in 223. The last time out, I sighted the gun in at 50 yards, then did some testing at 100, with my bullets set long to touch my lands. I did some more testing today with bullets set to fit in the magazine. The same load that shot well before also shot well today. Notice that the lighter load shot best.

 

[Dave M.]

I am both new to this board and to reloading so please understand if this seems obvious.

So, far I have not strayed from the bullet choice and the powder used to test it in a reloading manual.

My question can I use mix and match bullets and powders?

For example lets say I am reloading for a .308 Winchester and using Hornady 168 grain ELD-M bullets but I want to use IMR 4064 powder. The Hornady manual doesn't show it being tested but the Nosler manual for a 168 grain RDF does show that the Nosler bullet was rested with IMR 4064 powder.

Can I use the IMR 4064 with the Hornady ELD-M bullet?

I hope that my example is understandable as is my question.

You should be fine. Just start 6-8% below max load and work your way up slowly looking for any signs of pressure. You will find at least 3-4 nodes where the rifle shoots well.
dave

 

[Ned Ludd]

As has been noted above by others, you can certainly use the same reloading data for various bullets in a given weight class. Obviously, it would be preferable to find the data for the exact bullet you intend to use, let's say a 168 gr ELD-M, but the starting point (low end) data for any 168 gr bullet is going to be better than nothing, or better than the data for a bullet of a different weight class.

Within a given weight class of bullets, there will be a range of external bullet dimensions that may differ slightly from one bullet to another. These dimensional differences can mean slightly different pressure with a given charge weight behind one bullet versus another. Bearing surface length is a good example of an external measurement that can different between bullets of the same weight class, thereby affecting pressure. The function of reloading manual data is to provide a safe starting point (i.e. low end charge weight range) from which rounds can be loaded and some variable such as increasing charge weight can then be tested incrementally until an optimized charge weight is determined. Unfortunately, it is not always possible to find every single bullet/powder combination in a manual.

When you can't find the specific combo you're looking for, the next best choice would be to use the data for a similarly-shaped bullet of the same weight. By "similarly-shaped" I mean a bullet that is generally of the same bullet design; i.e. if you're using a boattail design, look for reloading data with another similar BT bullet of the same weight rather than a flat-base bullet, or some other design that is noticeably different. By starting at the low end of the charge weight range, you will generally be safe in terms of pressure, even if your bullet of choice generates slightly higher pressure at a given charge weight than the bullet actually listed in the reloading manual data.

 

[Old Navy]

Short answer: Yes, but..........start all testing at the low load and work up. Different bullets will have different bearing surfaces and every gun is a little different. Read here and do a search for “pressure signs”. Most of the time, manuals won’t list all the powders that can be used in a certain cartridge. They do try to list the powders that gave them the best results. Remember that manuals are written by Men and Men have opinions on which are the best powders to use.
Personally, I don’t pick a load at or near the MAX published data. Almost all of my good loads are in the middle or a little heavier than the middle of the published loads. Search “node” here. I find an accurate node below max because it’s easier on my brass , gun and I like a little margin of safety. Being new to reloading, it would be prudent for you to do the same, while you gain experience. Lots of good info can be found using the search function. If you don’t find what you need, ask! We’ll help you out!
Welcome to the forum!
Josh

This is an excellent post.

 

[joshb]

This is an excellent post.

Only took me 8 years of study and tutoring by the great guys found here,....and I’m still learning.

 

[JFrank]

We have a place for those that don’t listen well. Lol

Crappy target thread

I'll go first" what went wrong ? :( and who will be next to share?

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[bozo699]

I am both new to this board and to reloading so please understand if this seems obvious.

So, far I have not strayed from the bullet choice and the powder used to test it in a reloading manual.

My question can I use mix and match bullets and powders?

For example lets say I am reloading for a .308 Winchester and using Hornady 168 grain ELD-M bullets but I want to use IMR 4064 powder. The Hornady manual doesn't show it being tested but the Nosler manual for a 168 grain RDF does show that the Nosler bullet was rested with IMR 4064 powder.

Can I use the IMR 4064 with the Hornady ELD-M bullet?

I hope that my example is understandable as is my question.

Bob,
You have already been given sound advice so I have nothing to add other than Welcome to the forum. Best group of guys on any forum out there so you come to the right place!… your dealing with explosives so there is no dumb questions, so ask away!…. Best of luck in your endeavors and I look forward to seeing more posts from ya.
Wayne

 

[BobABQ]

Thank you everyone! This thread has helped me very much.