Clancy
Silver $$ Contributor
Not worried about contamination at all. Just don’t want to chase them around one at a time in a tray- a tray that could otherwise just be stuck in the hand primer and haul butt.
A Polite call to tool makers [tray fed hand primer]
- Thread starter Clancy
- Start date
DngBat7
Silver $$ Contributor
The Cps and double alpha is as fast smooth and accurate is it can get I believe. I have a Cps lite, and the Double alpha which I just picked up. I discovered by accident. I am surprised it’s not talked about more on the forum. That cheap plastic devise works awesome.
Sandstorm
Gold $$ Contributor
This game is all about what works for you and only you can answer that.
I dont do it like Joe and I think he's crazy doing it the way he does.
You dont even wanna know what he think of my approach...lol...
We all find our OCD that works for us in getting small targets.
I dont do it like Joe and I think he's crazy doing it the way he does.
You dont even wanna know what he think of my approach...lol...
We all find our OCD that works for us in getting small targets.
As a tool maker A) do you know how much work your request is?
As a tool maker & a NRA & CMP competitor, I do it all on my single stage ( a Lee,thank you) I decap/resize, then prime (that silly cheap plastic tray works, then power & projectiles. I see no need to go looking for a tool to satisfy a non existence problem.
As a tool maker & a NRA & CMP competitor, I do it all on my single stage ( a Lee,thank you) I decap/resize, then prime (that silly cheap plastic tray works, then power & projectiles. I see no need to go looking for a tool to satisfy a non existence problem.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Petros284
Site $$ Sponsor
I have to get to the drawing board…..Key is a lightweight tray that is reliable. This is where the challenge comes from.
For years I have wished someone would make a high quality Lee Autoprime. No one does. Given what is already on the market....
1. K&M Primer Gauge. Without question the most reliable way to get every primer seated to an EXACT crush. I can prime three cases a minute with mine, and it did allow me to cut ES in a 6BRA by 5 FPS over seating primers with other tools and then sorting by seated primer depth. I only use this tool for LR BR rifles.
2. 21st Century and Sinclair priming tools. These are high quality single primer tools that have very good feel. Shooters have been getting good results for years with these by seating until the primer seats then squeezing and little more.
3. Lee Autoprime, RCBS hand primer. Okay feel, mediocre quality. They are fast and allow loading a bunch of primers at once.
4. Frankford Arsenal. A little better quality than the Lee and RCBS. Feel is okay. The adjustment wheel is a waste. Just set the depth at max and go by feel, then squeeze a little more.
5. CPS. If you get the longer handle, the feel isn't bad. If you get the Dillon primer tube loaders, this is a great option for high volume priming. Again, the seating depth adjuster is a waste unless you measure the height of each primer and sort. Primer cup heights vary by as much as .005", so even with perfectly uniformed pockets there is a lot of variation. Just set the primer depth at max and go by feel.
1. K&M Primer Gauge. Without question the most reliable way to get every primer seated to an EXACT crush. I can prime three cases a minute with mine, and it did allow me to cut ES in a 6BRA by 5 FPS over seating primers with other tools and then sorting by seated primer depth. I only use this tool for LR BR rifles.
2. 21st Century and Sinclair priming tools. These are high quality single primer tools that have very good feel. Shooters have been getting good results for years with these by seating until the primer seats then squeezing and little more.
3. Lee Autoprime, RCBS hand primer. Okay feel, mediocre quality. They are fast and allow loading a bunch of primers at once.
4. Frankford Arsenal. A little better quality than the Lee and RCBS. Feel is okay. The adjustment wheel is a waste. Just set the depth at max and go by feel, then squeeze a little more.
5. CPS. If you get the longer handle, the feel isn't bad. If you get the Dillon primer tube loaders, this is a great option for high volume priming. Again, the seating depth adjuster is a waste unless you measure the height of each primer and sort. Primer cup heights vary by as much as .005", so even with perfectly uniformed pockets there is a lot of variation. Just set the primer depth at max and go by feel.
Clancy
Silver $$ Contributor
I knew you’d come to the rescue!! Thanks for the reply, and hopefully there’s a way that’s worth your while.
brokeasajoke
Silver $$ Contributor
My RCBS tray works well. Those ribs flip the primers great. The dots on the Lee tray not so much. Well, at least the one I have. I have never had a tray failure from either brand. Maybe a 3D printed plastic until injection molding could be subbed? All though aluminum would be cool.
Anybody done a accuracy test between these hand primers?
Yes. I found I could throw the 21c the farthest with best accuracy. Probably because it is heavier and more compact.
Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
Ha! Maybe...
What do you think is going to change between them? I use all kinds of priming tools, and even invented one that will set an exact position within .0005" reference to the case head (rather than rim).
Given the ability to set a primer depth to an exact number, repeatedly, primer crush doesn't work the way I expected, so I'm still experimenting (and making videos). There is definitely something in there, I have suspicions, but no proof yet.
The question is: What mechanism would cause one to be more accurate than another? If I can figure it out, to the point of statistical significance, I'll let people know...
I would like to see the data that others use in their testing and assertions about the value of a particular method or priming tool. Small samples can result in unbelievable outcomes, mostly because of random dispersion.
As @INTJ asserted above, there is a massive amount of variation in primer cup heights, which makes seating by feel the only viable method, without measuring and sorting, if one is convinced that a particular crush value is appropriate.
I will throw one more thing out there for your consideration: When we talk about crushing primers, there are two ways to measure that crush:
1) Under load while seating
2) Final primer position
As you can imagine, primer cups have some springback in them. As a result, .002 under load can be just touching or .001 in final position, depending on how tight the pockets are.
Jdne5b
Gold $$ Contributor
Fwiw, I used the Hornady hand held primer for a long time. The tray seems really good, and it's one tray for small and large primers. The tray doesn't seem available by itself commercially though. Maybe direct with Hornady.
Maybe a 3D printed option to fit the old model that used the Lee trays?
I have an RCBS handheld (with the round green primer tray) that I’ve used for a few years. Works fine on LRP, but not so well on SRP, so I bought a Frankford Arsenal Platinum. That square primer tray gave me trouble, so I replaced it with the round green one from the RCBS unit, and all is well. I do like the Frankford primer seater (with the round green tray).
I'm going to assume nothing changes but you know what assuming does right? Lol. I went from a RCBS to the FA, 21C and now a K&M and cannot tell the difference on target but I only shoot F Class now days.
The K&M primer gauge allows us to seat visually, and it is interesting to actually see how hard it is to feel a primer bottom out when the pocket is tight.
I haven't done accuracy testing with primer seating yet. All I did was load my best load for a particular 6 BRA barrel and check it. That was seating primers by feel and sorting by measured depth of the seated primer vs using the K&M Primer Gauge. I cut ES by 5 fps with the gauge. That just means my tune window should be 5 fps wider.
I haven't gone back and done extensive retesting because that one test was enough. It takes less time and is less hassle to seat primers with the K&M Gauge vs seating, measuring, and sorting; and I know the Gauge is a more precise way to seat primers.
Now last match at Deep Creek I had an issue where I needed to retest. I stupidly didn't prime the extra cases I had prepped. A friend stepped up and "loaned" me 13 primers. Now I didn't have my K&M and these primers weren't even weighed. I was testing seating depth. We shoot round robin tuning ladders at 1000 yds. The best seating depth shot a 3" 3-shot group at 1000 yds, a nice triangle. It was the seating depth and load that had shot best for me the previous two matches.
The previous time I tested this load, a month or maybe two months earlier; it shot a 1.25" group that had about a 1/2" of vertical with my weighed and precisely crushed primers. However, since that was on a different day, and probably a little better conditions, I don't think that is a completely valid comparison. It's hard to imagine that a potential 5 FPS less velocity variation would make that much difference.
By the time I were to do enough testing to have confidence in exact crush vs unsorted and seated by feel, it would be time to chamber a new barrel. So for now I am settled on how I load primers, and I am focusing on the bigger stuff. While my Heavy Gun has shot well this year, my light gun hasn't been as good. I have more fine tuning to do and I need to sink the action 1/8" deeper in the stock and rebed.
When my LG consistency approaches @tom
and @GlennK and @Northridge and a couple of others, then I'll do a primer crush test early some morning when conditions are excellent at Deep Creek.
Petros284
Site $$ Sponsor
Already thinking of a few ideas!
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