A&D FX120i

[Bronzie]

I've got a fluorescent light, ceiling fan nearby, and an open register with almost no drift. I load very much as you described. Desk, dropper, trickle up but make sure the draft shield blocks any air movement from affecting the scale.

Are you using the draft shield?

 

[Doom]

Most flourescent fixtures will not affect the scale. An old fluorescent desk lamp might next to the scale might. It 's unlikely that dirty power is an issue. Cell phone is unlikely.

Weight of the powder cup affects the settling time of the scale so some pans/cups (Area 419) take longer to settle. They also affect hysteresis. Also how the pan is placed location, heavy-handed placement, can effect the weight.

As for drift the scale can drift 0.02 gn and you won't know it. Also remember that the repeatability of the scale is 0.001g (0.015432gn for 1 standard deviation). This means the resolution and repeatability together for 95% repeatability is +/-0.05 gn, not 0.02gn.

 

[D Coots]

The FX series are (if I’m not mistaken) typically are “external” calibration, where you have to use a weight and physically calibrate the balance. The FZ series are “internal” calibration, you just run a calibration mode in the menus.

I actually prefer the external calibration. If you get a decent class 100g weight from a reputable source and take good care of it, you’ll alway be able to trust the calibration you do. I think auto-calibration units are prone to be potentially less reliable over time.

My friends is exactly like mine, but have to calibrate different. Beats me.

 

[Doom]

My friends is exactly like mine, but have to calibrate different. Beats me.

How so?

 

[gmr4]

Most flourescent fixtures will not affect the scale. An old fluorescent desk lamp might next to the scale might. It 's unlikely that dirty power is an issue. Cell phone is unlikely.

Weight of the powder cup affects the settling time of the scale so some pans/cups (Area 419) take longer to settle. They also affect hysteresis. Also how the pan is placed location, heavy-handed placement, can effect the weight.

As for drift the scale can drift 0.02 gn and you won't know it. Also remember that the repeatability of the scale is 0.001g (0.015432gn for 1 standard deviation). This means the resolution and repeatability together for 95% repeatability is +/-0.05 gn, not 0.02gn.

Hey Doom… of this topic… does tossing all over charges .02 over cut the .05 in half

 

[LCazador]

You're probably having drifting due to electrical noise. Put a quality surge protector on your power source and then plug a line conditioner into that surge protecter then you plug the scale into the line conditioner. Pay the price and buy a quality surge protector and line conditioner. Eaton and Belkin both make quality units.

 

[D Coots]

How so?

Same scale, same V4 . His came a couple weeks later.

 

[Doom]

Hey Doom… of this topic… does tossing all over charges .02 over cut the .05 in half

Not really, the rated reliability repeatability is +/-0.0308 gn. That's 2xSD for 95%. Meaning the same item weighed many times will read +/-0.0308 gn of the true value and outside that 5% of the time. You may be more precise than that but you have no way to be sure.

You can however get a good estimate by doing the following:

Pick a bullet whose weight is close to your charge weight if possible and weigh that bullet 20 to 30 times. Do this in gram mode by placing the bullet on the pan or platen (should make no difference) and letting the scale settle for 5 to 10 seconds. Record the all values. Remove the bullet and let the scale settle at zero for 5 to 10 seconds. Repeat the process for the remaining rounds. Then calculate the sample average and standard deviation. With that information we can calculate the expected confidence interval.

It is also worthwhile to do this as described above without any zeroing after the initial start and with the zero tracking disabled and then repeat the test with zeroing before each weighing either manually or with tracking. Doing these tests will help understand your actual scale/balance performance. It also helps to perform them in grain mode to understand the difference that the .02 increment can make.

 

[Rich S]

Make a test weight close to your powder charge. I made one from a 20 cal bullet. It’s always a good reference if the scale drifts.

Check to see if the pan has any wobble. They made some inserts out of plastic and some from metal. A friend had a plastic one that wobbled slightly and did not provide as consistent of readings. He modified it so it didn’t have any movement and was a noticeable improvement. Not sure how common of an issue that is but worth checking.

 

[FarmallSM]

Look under the stainless plates for kernels building up.

Yep been there done that! Super careful now and try not to spill.

 

[FarmallSM]

What powder cup are you using? If it’s a glass or metal cup it shouldn’t “gain” too much weight from usage, but powder residue does build up and believe it or not the scale is so sensitive it will record the slight weight difference. I notice this particularly with my IP powder cups. They do get “heavier” with use as the powder residue (dark stains) build up! The only cup I use that I really haven’t noticed this with is the standard SuperTrickler cup. It’s metal and has not changed color at all… lo and behold, it’s maintained a constant and precise 763.14gn. Go figure.

The other issue is that moving your hand too quickly when placing or removing the pan, breathing in the direction of the scale, leaning on the bench, air temperature etc. all can cause small shifts this way that way in the scale. Just mitigate all those factors as best you can, don’t plug other stuff in the same outlet if you can manage (isolate the power), watch closely for sources of static or electronic interference (phones and devises, plastic accessories) too close to the balance, and maybe throw a ferrite bead on the power cord and you should be good to go. The FX-120i is pretty robust and super reliable. I wholeheartedly recommend getting an ATV4. Just buy it direct from MacDonald. That’s what I did. Super simple, great price, and no tariff either.

Just ordered my v4 from McDonald!

 

[FarmallSM]

I've got a fluorescent light, ceiling fan nearby, and an open register with almost no drift. I load very much as you described. Desk, dropper, trickle up but make sure the draft shield blocks any air movement from affecting the scale.

Are you using the draft shield?

Yes! 3 sides and I cut a piece on 1/4” plexiglass for a top so I can see through it. I drilled a 1/2” hole through the left side plastic to slide powder trickler through. Very aware of drafts. That was a quick learning curve when I 1st got it.

 

[Deadmeat1899]

I solved my drifting problem by moving my cell phone away from the unit. I noticed that any time my phone was in close proximity of the scale I had a drifting problem.

 

[Liven The Dream]

I solved my drifting problem by moving my cell phone away from the unit. I noticed that any time my phone was in close proximity of the scale I had a drifting problem.

Good Job.
There must be 20 or more Posts on Reloading Room set up for our Scales.
Just a few No Cell Phones, LED Lights,Voltage Line Regulators, Fans drafts etc........
FX-120i The zero thing ? If you remove your weighted Charge and the Scale read -E !
You need to read the book.

 

[JMayo]

Even with the incorrect negative weight showing after removing the cup, try a check weight. I bet it reads right.
If i keep zerroing it's get all f'ed up.

 

[sgav8r]

I just heard back from CE Products regarding the new FX-123 on their site. Apparently the FX series is being “overhauled” by A&D and the FX-123 is the direct replacement to the FX-120i.

I’ve compared the stat sheets of the FX-123 and the FX-120i. All the dimensions, operations and specifications appear identical. Main differences are the FX-123 comes with an LCD display vs a VFD display on the FX-120i. Also the FX-123 comes with a USB output (in addition to the RS-232).

 

[itchyTF]

My reasoning, not from A&D. If you have a pan on the platen when you come out of standby the scale considers itself at absolute zero (not temperature). If you now lift the pan, it will try to go below absolute zero which it can't hence the -E. If you turn on the scale (come out of standby) with nothing on the platen wait for it to stabilize, then add the pan and zero, you've created a relative zero. This is offset from absolute and will now read the negative of the pan weight.

 

[D Coots]

Good Job.
There must be 20 or more Posts on Reloading Room set up for our Scales.
Just a few No Cell Phones, LED Lights,Voltage Line Regulators, Fans drafts etc........
FX-120i The zero thing ? If you remove your weighted Charge and the Scale read -E !
You need to read the book.

I had the -E problem. See post 11. It's in the book.

Later

Dave

 

[Krogen]

Good Job.
There must be 20 or more Posts on Reloading Room set up for our Scales.
Just a few No Cell Phones, LED Lights,Voltage Line Regulators, Fans drafts etc........
FX-120i The zero thing ? If you remove your weighted Charge and the Scale read -E !
You need to read the book.

Maybe I missed something, but as I read it the manual says a -E error means the scale needs recalibration. Without recalibrating I can put a 100 g checkweight on the scale and it reads fine. Seems to me that it's OK. Cycling the on/off button does clear the -E error and the scale is still in calibration. I am not sure just what the -E error means, because it doesn't seem to be a recalibration squawk.

 

[64Rambler]

Center up the bubble level again. Yes, it's that sensitive.

This is critical to repeatability. Despite what McDonald says, keep the bubble on the balance centered in the circle. If you need to adjust the pitch of the feeder, do it external to the level of the balance. Some use a screw in the back of the unit to adjust this, I use stepped wedges to get the fine adjustment I need for individual powders. Some are good as it sits, some need one step, some need two to get the fine trickle in the middle of the calibration scale, then when I save a calibration for a particular powder I include the number of steps on my wedges.