A big 30?

[Larry Koch]

Why not a cannon with wheels?

 

[bobinpa]

I am, or was a big time hunter a couple years ago. I moved a couple of times, lost the spot I hunted, got busy remodeling a 1945 farm house and resurrecting a run down ranch. Hunted elk with a rifle last year, first rifle elk tag I ever held. Passed on a 310 5x6 opening day 1000' vertical above the river on a very hot day. Thought I made a mistake and went back an hour later to make sure, got him in the scope again and decided that I had made the right decision. Part of the decision was the size of the bull, part was the temperature, part was the 'you are dead if you slip on the way down with a packload of meat'.

I went back there a couple days ago, no elk tag in the pocket, and wondered if I had just gotten lazy for not wanting to kill an animal with a brutal packout while being out of shape. I talked to myself for quite a while while hiking up about 1000' to go check on the elk that raid my hayfields every night. I decided that I needed to return to my prior self of hiking 3 miles at 10,000 to 12,000' with a heavy barrel 22-250 to make a couple of stands calling for coyotes. Going to where ever it takes to find a good bull, or buck and not worry about the pack out that might happen. I still don't want to shoot an animal that I know I can't retrieve the meat from, but I need to not be a pussy and get back to killing animals that aren't easy.

The country I am hunting is very steep, very rugged, and very remote. While I have never killed a bull elk at more than 40 yards, I see why some people want to shoot 600 to 800 yards or more. I am an archer at heart, but I love guns and hunting with a rifle too. I pondered what I would build to shoot a big bull at up to 800 yards. I personally believe in big bullets, I don't think a 6.5mm is big enough on a 900 pounds bull at extended ranges. After I shot an antelope at 1282 yards with a 50BMG in 2000, I don't even like the ethics of the long range hunting.

I almost bought a custom built controlled round feed model 70 Winchester in 30-375 Ruger a few years back. It sounds like that was basically a 300prc? I regret not buying it, but my shooting has suffered in the last couple years, I estimated today that I have only fired about 200 rounds of accurately place rifle rounds this year, it used to be 2 to 3 thousand a year.

Anyway, for the hypothetical 600 to 800 yard elk shot in the remote wilderness of Idaho, what is the 30 caliber round that I am looking for, while still being in a rifle I can carry up 3000 vertical while covering 8 to 12 miles on foot? I used to be pretty recoil tolerant, but haven't even shot my 50 in 4 or 5 years.

If you are looking for a big .30, the 300 RUM is the best answer. It's not a wildcat, you can buy factory ammo and it's readily available. It does everything you want and more. The downside is it has to be a long action, so if you want something a little smaller and lighter, go with a 300 WSM. Just like the tried and true 300 WM but on a shorter lighter action. It's not complicated, so don't make it complicated. Newer cartridges do the same thing the older cartridges do except with better case designs and generally less powder. Example would be 300 WSM vs 300 WM.... Any case that will ship a 180 - 200 grain bullet at 2800 fps or better is exactly what you want. Pick something common and go hunting.

 

[ISS]

BobinPa,

Are you suggesting any of us shoot factory ammunition? 22lr gang excepted.

I have not seen any RUM based ammunition or brass at any GS in years, and that includes the Boise Cabela's and Scheels. It's easier for me to buy 404 Jefferys brass and reform. The 300 NM brass is readily available (I bought nearly 300 new cases from a member here for less than $2 per; and the guys I know shooting the NMI just load and shoot the NM case, even at matches. 100yd groups in the .2-.25" range for five shots.

A 300NM can be built on any long action with a mag bolt, VS a RUM that requires a true Magnum length one. Economics alone dictate the 300NM or NMI.
If you think a 200gr bullet at 2800fps is cool, think NMI launching a 230-240gr bullet at 3000fps!

regards,

Rich

PS: ask Alex Wheeler why he does so many NMI's.

 

[V35]

Before I got caught on head stamps, I would choose the bullet (or maybe two) I wanted to use, and figure how much muzzle velocity I need to make the bullet perform on target at said distance. That will narrow it down. Pick one of that group that you like.

 

[bobinpa]

BobinPa,

Are you suggesting any of us shoot factory ammunition? 22lr gang excepted.

I have not seen any RUM based ammunition or brass at any GS in years, and that includes the Boise Cabela's and Scheels. It's easier for me to buy 404 Jefferys brass and reform. The 300 NM brass is readily available (I bought nearly 300 new cases from a member here for less than $2 per; and the guys I know shooting the NMI just load and shoot the NM case, even at matches. 100yd groups in the .2-.25" range for five shots.

A 300NM can be built on any long action with a mag bolt, VS a RUM that requires a true Magnum length one. Economics alone dictate the 300NM or NMI.
If you think a 200gr bullet at 2800fps is cool, think NMI launching a 230-240gr bullet at 3000fps!

regards,

Rich

PS: ask Alex Wheeler why he does so many NMI's.

I'm not suggesting anyone shoot factory ammo, all I was suggesting is that it doesn't have to be complicated. The 300 RUM has been around for a long time and it is more than capable of what the OP wants to do. Now you may not be able to buy factory ammo anywhere you want, but a quick online search shows that Midway has 20 different options in stock.
The OP didn't say if he wanted to build a custom or buy a factory rifle. If he is looking at factory, I think the Norma is out. Also, I believe the Norma requires a "Lapua" bolt face of .590, which almost requires a custom action unless you find a rare factory Rem 700 that started as a 338 Lapua.

I have 338 RUMs, 300 RUMs, 338 EDGE a 338 Lapua, and a Bat action and a barrel for a 300 NMI build, so a 200 grain bullet at 2800 is nice and more than adequate for elk but, I agree with you in that a 230 at 3k is cooler.

 

[ISS]

Varying opinions, what's the saying (paraphrase) Men of good nature can agree to disagree without "pistols for two, breakfast for one..."

Good dialogue,

Rich

 

[SKWERLZ]

BobinPa,

Are you suggesting any of us shoot factory ammunition? 22lr gang excepted.

I have not seen any RUM based ammunition or brass at any GS in years, and that includes the Boise Cabela's and Scheels. It's easier for me to buy 404 Jefferys brass and reform. The 300 NM brass is readily available (I bought nearly 300 new cases from a member here for less than $2 per; and the guys I know shooting the NMI just load and shoot the NM case, even at matches. 100yd groups in the .2-.25" range for five shots.

A 300NM can be built on any long action with a mag bolt, VS a RUM that requires a true Magnum length one. Economics alone dictate the 300NM or NMI.
If you think a 200gr bullet at 2800fps is cool, think NMI launching a 230-240gr bullet at 3000fps!

regards,

Rich

PS: ask Alex Wheeler why he does so many NMI's.

Here 300rum ammo and brass are available

ADG has excellent 300 rum brass as well.

 

[std7mag]

By that criteria, so is the 7.82 Lazzeroni Warbird.

Granted you need to buy it from Lazzeroni. But it's available.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Adg brass is all you need if considering RUM

 

[Orr89rocz]

Id also mention there was some love for the 30-28 nosler as well. Adg or peterson brass available. Bit closer to rum without the long oal. Fits a 3.8 cip mag better. Hits a good high node with a 215 berger without running it as hard as you’d have to with a 30 nos or 300 prc. Although ive seen/read some astronomical velocities from 300 prc guys…i have my doubts.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Id also mention there was some love for the 30-28 nosler as well. Adg or peterson brass available. Bit closer to rum without the long oal. Fits a 3.8 cip mag better. Hits a good high node with a 215 berger without running it as hard as you’d have to with a 30 nos or 300 prc. Although ive seen/read some astronomical velocities from 300 prc guys…i have my doubts.

I’ve seen some scary speeds as well from 300PRC.

 

[L.Sherm]

Id also mention there was some love for the 30-28 nosler as well.

Have zero regrets building mine, the 215 is bad elk medicine in it running 3085 FPS

 

[effendude]

The 300 WSM, WM, RUM are all great choices for standard magnum actions. I ran through four RUM barrels before I sold my last one to a friend. All the barrels shot factory ammo well, as well as handloads. Brass life was about 4 firings as I pushed them hard. The 230 gr Bergers kill very well in handloaded ammo. My current 30 caliber hunting rifle is a 300 Norma Mag Improved built by Ryan Pierce, just because Ryan builds amazing rifles and it sounded cool. It shoots like the RUM velocity wise but brass life is much better. It needs a Lapua bolt face action, limiting future calibers for the action in the future.

If international hunting is on the list, I'd suggest a 300 Win Mag as ammo is available nearly everywhere. There isn't much difference velocity wise between any of the above cartridges when handloaded with the heavier bullets.

Great discussion of different options!
Scott