wleoff: to tighten group size ,powder changes are not the quickest way. adjust seating depth by 5 thous difference and you will see not only group size changes but the location of the group moves. i find good groups commonly in small cases with jumps off the lands around 20 to 35 thous. to be scientific i will load groups of three, starting 5 thous off lands, 10 thous off, 15 thous off, etc. out to 40 thous. start shooting the deepest seated rounds and if i find a tight group, reseat the remaining rounds later and retest. very often i find a good load/group with minimal shooting. if this fails, i will change powder and repeat. if the powder is temperature sensitive a good load in the winter will commonly not be good in the summer...aggrevation! in this case changing the seating depth will often return the small group. enjoy. [/quote] if i can see you, i can touch you. BANG!