77 Nosler in a .223

[1000yardstare]

Always regarded Nosler bullets as a series of innovative hunting bullets. Saw a 250 count box of 77 gr .224 Nosler Custom Competition at a gun dealer for a very reasonable price. Always looking for something new so paid the cash.

Rifle is a .223 MacLennon 30 inch 8 twist barrel on a trued 722 action, Wylde chamber, Basix trigger, Fajen prone stock with Anschutz fittings, B&L 6-24 scope.

Determined seating depth of the Noslers and loaded them over H4895, CCI 450 primers, Win brass, COAL 2.280 which kisses the lands. This puts the rear of the bearing surface of the boattail bullet below the donut.

Went out to my club`s 300 metre range today. Light tail wind, light rain, no visible mirage, no wind flags, 15C (59F), concrete bench, bipod, rear bag. Didn`t chrono because of the rain.

Shot at 100 first to check elevation. Put 3 into 3/4 inch, 5 1/2 high. Went out to 300. First sighter right on for elevation. Shot a 2 3/8 inch 5 shot group to adjust centering. Then fired the 10 shot group shown below that measures 2 3/4 inch which is 0.83 moa at 330 yards. Scores 50-5V on the DCRA F Class target with its 1/2 minute V-Bull (inner light circle). Outer light circle is the ISU 10 ring. Have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the Nosler bullets.

 

[fordwrench]

If your into tinkering w the heavy bullets in the 223 try rl 15 also. I have an 8 tw ar that has shot numerous groups in the 1s at 100yds and.5 at 200. It is way more accurate than it ever should be.

 

[Laurie]

I never tried 77gn Noslers in my 1-8" twist .223 (Lilja 26" 4-groove AR15 match with Wylde chamber), but found H4895 was the powder for small groups with Lapua, Berger and Sierra 77s which are all similar designs. The older 80gn Custom Competition bullets gave outstanding accuracy in this barrel with either VarGet or Re15. The three 77s I tried were all outstanding short-range perfomers, and among the most tolerant bullets I tried in the rifle as to powders and loads - but H4895 was best in every case (against Viht N140 and 540, VarGet and Re15).

MVs were all modest and this seems to suit these bullets. Also, I got no benefit in group size from seating the bullets out and single-loading them. They really do what it says on the tin - great 300yd bullets loaded to AR15 magazine length!

Over here in the UK, many .223R shooters don't seem to notice these bullets' low BCs and assume because of the weight that they are long-range designs and use them in bolt guns out to 600 yards or further when 80s or the 75gn A-Max would be a much better choice. There are regular issues over trying them in 1-9" twist barrelled factory rifles too which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't so far as I can see, depending on rifle make. With the Nosler CC being the shortest of the bunch, it's probably got the best chance of stabilising in a 1-9", so is worth trying if you really wanted to use this bullet weight.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[1000yardstare]

My first reaction looking at the 77 Noslers was they had a blunt looking ogive so the B.C. must be lower than SMKs, Bergers and AMax. Never had much luck with Bergers in my particular rifle.

My intent is to use the Noslers striclty at 300 yards and 300 metres in F Class practise. If they are as suitable out on an open Army range as off a covered bench then I may use them in competiton.

The main factor knocking me out of the F Class winner`s circle in the Grand Aggs the past few years has been my 300 scores - very inconsistent with a .243 and then a 6AI. Hot one day and then cold the next. I am thinking of using the .223 in competition only at 300 to see if I can fix the problem. We will see how it plays out in F Class practise the next 3 months.

There are two 300s in the Ontario Championships and four 300s in the Grand Agg at the Canadian Championships in August so I have to work on the situation.

 

[Laurie]

That's correct insofar as the Nosler has a smaller radius shoulder, but if Bryan Litz's measurements and calculations are correct, there is nothing at all between them so far as BC goes. He quotes the Nosler's ogive / nose section as 0.474" long and with a 6.3 calibres radius compared to 0.484 / 7.05 calibres and 0.495" / 7.47 calibres for the Sierra and Berger 77s respectively. (His book doesn't have the Scenar as it is a recent introduction.)

His measured BCs are:

SMK .............................. 0.190 / 0.371
Berger ........................... 0.192 / 0.376
Nosler ........................... 0.193 / 0.377

(G7 / G1 values)

Apart from trying handloading something new, and getting a bargain - two things I'm a complete sucker for myself - I'd have thought you'd be better off with higher BC 80s even in 300yd competition.

Having said that, the Nosler 80s were probably the best grouping make I tried in my rifle, so the manufacturing quality seems to be very good. Nosler CCs are only rarely found over here, and when they are, they're very expensive compared to Sierras, so you hardly ever hear them mentioned compared to Sierra, Hornady, Lapua or Berger.

We've only just had a trial national F-Class league round here at 'short range' at Diggle in Northern England over last weekend, but not 300, rather 500 + 600yd matches repeated on two consecutive days. With a very severely scaled down target, it was far harder than the F-Open shooters expected and was generally judged a great success. What was interesting was the F/TR winner of Match 3 (500yd) reigning F/TR World Champion Russell Simmonds beat the Open winner by a 'V', and the two equal-second placed F/TR competitors tied with him, all this in a very tricky wind. Since the Open winner was Gary Costello, the reigning F-Class World Champion, the benefit of using high MV high BC barrel-burning cartridges is obviously eroded at this range. Match 1 500yd results aren't directly comparable unfortunately as the top Open shooters were squadded together on the first relay of the weekend which saw near flat calm conditions with a pre 0900 start, while their F/TR opposite numbers were on Relay 3 which saw a difficult to read light wind get up.

But, on going out to 600yd (on the same target) the Open boys' external ballistics started to pay off opening a 4-point gap up on the Saturday rising to 6 points on Sunday (ex 100) with very much higher V-counts in a really nasty gusty wind.

Let us know, or PM me please, later in the year as to how you get on with the .223. I'm still waiting on a barrel for my .223 project, but hope to try it later in the season.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[1000yardstare]

Great report Laurie. For the record my .223 bullet of choice is the 75 AMax moly but thought I would give the Nosler a go.

First competition over here will be on the May two four long weekend, so named because of the amount of beer consumed on the first summer weekend. Actually the proper name is the Victoria Day holiday, a relic of the old colonial period, in honour of Queen Victoria. Don`t think Britain even has the holiday.

Anyway, the shoot is in Ottawa which at that time of year is still releasing from the last Ice Age. Wind, rain, snow, blackflies if unusually warm. The Canadian way, gotta love it.

 

[Laurie]

Don`t think Britain even has the holiday.

No - we have the Commie (introduced by a lefty Labour government in the 70s) May Day holiday at the beginning and the Late Spring holiday at the end. We also consume a lot of beer during them, except for those who spend the whole holiday admiring roadside verges while stuck in traffic jams.

Our present government believes that History began in 1997 when the New Labour 'project' began, and if it existed before, it was nasty, unpleasant, and something we should be ashamed of. This particularly applies to Queen Vic's reign cos (whisper it quietly in case the Thought Police hear you) we had a dreadful thing called 'The Empire' when we all were hellbent on exploiting poor vulnerable people, many of them black or brown-skinned which makes our crimes even worse as they were obviously of the race-hate variety. So, today we don't celebrate the old Queen except in a few street, school, and public house names.

Oddly enough, poor old Vic was so griefstricken in her lifetime with the early death of her other half, the Prince Consort Albert, that we have lots of statues in public spaces of him, but none of her. When I was a boy growing up in Perth in lowland Scotland, I long wondered who this Albert geezer was who merited a huge black (coal-smoke pollution!) statue at the entrance to one of the Fair City's two parks. The only reason they're still there is that it's too expensive to remove them I expect.

So, instead of having QV holidays, we now have the PM publicly apologise to any of the former victims of the Victorian era who moan loudly enough. Go on Yanks, tell HMG that you're still really upset by George III and his taxation policies, or the way we treated you 'rebels' and your families in the War of Independence - and somebody will come over to Congress and the Senate and tell you how sorry we are that our great, great, great (etc) grandfathers were beastly to you! Just don't expect any money, though, since we're now stoney broke as a nation! I'm sure we've done something to cause offence to your ancestors too 1000yardstare, so get a petition up and some British politician will likely turn up and make a complete fool of himself. It's very funny, and why should the Irish and the Africans be the only ones to enjoy the joke? For that matter, when are the Danes going to apologise to us for all that rape and pillage by the Vikings in 800-1000 AD?

Anyway, this is why we hold the TRAFALGAR historic arms meeting at Bisley each October, not the VICTORIA meeting, despite the number of Victorian period rifles used and the vast quantity of Victorian period design .303, .450/577 etc cartridges consumed. Oh .... if there are any French viewers of this post .......... I'm deeply sorry, that my ancestors sank your ancestors' ships off Cape Trafalgar. How politically incorrect of us to commemorate this unpleasant event, not to mention still having Waterloo railway station in London.

Now ... what were we saying about .223? Handloading and shooting it makes much more sense than official British government policy on a lot of things!

Laurie,
York, England

 

[1000yardstare]

Had an F Class practise April 24 on an Army base north of Toronto. First range was 300 yards. Wanted to see how the 77 Nosler did under field conditions. Increased the load of H4895 by 1/2 grain since my initial report at the beginning of this thread. Chronos at 2800 fps, easy extraction, no primer cratering on the CCI 450s.

Sunny day, light breeze coming in at 5 o`clock over the right shoulder, 15C (59F). Put on one minute of wind. Got the following plot of shots at 300. Have no plans to go farther back with the .223.

First sighter (A) is always high and left out of a clean barrel so the shot was consistent. Second sighter (B) was where I wanted it, on the right side of the 1/2 minute V-Bull (inner light line) slightly into the wind. That way a gust is in the V ring, shots 3 and 8.

Great philosophy but got caught by two lulls, shots 5 and 10. Beginning of the season and a little slow in staying on the wind. Looked at the wind flags after both shots and they were hanging straight down.

Shot 9 was a poor hold. Called it low and it was low. Never gave it a chance.

Target scores 50-7V. Had to be happy with that. Next step will be trying the 77 Nosler on a windy day at 300.

 

[7x57]

"I never tried 77gn Noslers in my 1-8" twist .223 (Lilja 26" 4-groove AR15 match with Wylde chamber), but found H4895 was the powder for small groups with Lapua, Berger and Sierra 77s which are all similar designs. The older 80gn Custom Competition bullets gave outstanding accuracy in this barrel with either VarGet or Re15. The three 77s I tried were all outstanding short-range perfomers, and among the most tolerant bullets I tried in the rifle as to powders and loads - but H4895 was best in every case (against Viht N140 and 540, VarGet and Re15)."

Thanks Laurie! I had not tried H4895 in the 77's before, but I think I've finally found a load my current barrel likes, a 20" 1:7.7 Kreiger that CLE did for AR15 service rifle. I've shot thousands of rounds with Varget or RL15 with 75/77's in other barrels, and it never seemed to matter much, they all shot well-well enough to clean the 200 and 300 yd targets with high x counts in hipower shooting. But this barrel just would not cooperate with the usual loads of Varget/RL15. I tried H4895 after seeing your post and got groups half the size of Varget/RL15. I am glad that it wasn't the barrel that was bad (although it hammers with Berger 80 vlds with a stiff dose of N540)

 

[1000yardstare]

Got the windy day I wanted to evaluate the 77 Noslers. Shot off a bench at 300 metres (330 yds), 23C (73F), 20 to 30 click wind coming in at 4 o`clock, swirling between the side berms.

Upped the H4895 charge to chrono the 77 Noslers at 2930 fps. Easy extraction, no primer cratering. Put five into 1 1/2 inch at 300 metres. Shot when the veg on the back berm stopped doing the Watusi.

For sake of comparison, shot 69 SMKs that chronod 3075 fps over H4895. Best I could do was five in 3 1/2 inch at 300 metres.

That extra 8 grains in the 77s seems to make a big difference.

 

[Laurie]

Upped the H4895 charge to chrono the 77 Noslers at 2930 fps.

Good velocity Bill !!

I've just been running Bryan Litz's BCs for various bullets over short ranges - for .308 Win, but it'll apply to .223 Rem too. The lesson I took from the exercise was to ignore external ballistics efficiency for 200 and 300yd matches. The difference between some blunt old 168 and sooper-dooper VLD is so tiny at these ranges, that group-size counts for far, far more in terms of shot spread. (Unless it's a seaside clifftop range that suffers Force 10 gales of course, like a friend's experience of shooting in a match in Jersey, an island in the English Channel, where the wind was so strong it snapped a target frame off at the legs and blew it away!)

So, if you can shoot one-hole groups with 0.224" 77s or 0.308" 168s at these ranges, go for them and forget the relatively low BCs. When you get to 600yd, it's another matter though.