7.62 X 39 accuracy

[johned]

I recently read that the 7.62 X 39 cart in Euro brass and reloaded would do no better than one MOA. Is that true? What should I expect from a Sporter 16.5 inches long in Criterion Match.

Thank you,

John

 

[Laurie]

I had a Cz527 Carbine - scaled down Mauser type action, 16-inch (I think) barrel - in 7.62X39mm some years back. With factory Lapua 123gn FMJ ammo, it would shoot 1-1.5 MOA at 100, 2-MOA at the very outside. With handloads using the same bullets, it was around 1-MOA average with loads that it liked.

It was quite capable of shooting well on the standard GB NRA (2-MOA 'Bull') at 300 yards if the wind didn't blow too variably, was still fun if not a precision rifle / ammo at 500 with 'elevations' starting to become an issue, and at 600 yards in the winter it would stay mostly in the 'black', but the markers told me afterwards that bullets were starting to tumble.

Surplus East European military and budget commercial ammo (such as Russian Barnaul) varied from 2 to 6-MOA at 100. Some of the military surplus was 'hot', 250 fps higher MVs than the Lapua or my handloads.

 

[Ggmac]

It's a great cartridge , you need to match the bullet diam , chamber and barrel diam to optimize it's potential.
I built a few bolt rifles using .308 barrels , custom reamer , and good barrels . I told everyone it was the 30 pPC

 

[swadiver]

i have got an Ar 15 chambered in 7.62 x39. it will shoot an inch to one and half groups at 100 with Golden Tiger ammo. with reloads, it will sometimes be sub moa.

 

[johned]

Thank you very much, all. Very encouraged with your comments.

 

[XTR]

My gunsmith once told me that he liked building me rifles because I know how to load. He went on to say that it is really a pain to have a customer come back with a full custom and complain that it won't group.... shooting surplus eastern bloc ammo.


Point being, the ammo you use will matter, and for this particular chambering there is a lot of ammo in the world that is just designed to go bang and hit man sized targets at 25 yards.

 

[swd]

It's a very inherently accurate cartridge it's just that most of the ammo and rifles out there aren't.

 

[dcali]

I see no reason why it won't shoot. You just have to build a proper rifle and use good brass/bullets. The bullets are a problem, unless you do something weird like use a .308 bore, but that's not exactly a 7.62x39 anymore... Better off using a .30 BR if you want something similar that's known to be very accurate.

 

[johned]

So I have a Criterion Match barrel in 16.5 and that is installed in a timed and trued Fred approved Striker. I reload. So the common wisdom is I should be able to get 1/2 to 1 MOA without stripping any gears?

 

[johned]

I see no reason why it won't shoot. You just have to build a proper rifle and use good brass/bullets. The bullets are a problem, unless you do something weird like use a .308 bore, but that's not exactly a 7.62x39 anymore... Better off using a .30 BR if you want something similar that's known to be very accurate.

Damon,

I specified a 308 bore. Ruger and Savage and CZ said that their 7.62 X 39 were all running a 308 bore. I measured my Lapua cartridges and they were 308. All my Czech guns are 312 or 313 bores and so are the AKs I believe. I think they do that so the guns will run poor quality bullets and ALSO that clearance lets the gun run cooler. Accuracy drops to 4 MOA or worse.

 

[FrankG]

Saami spec. for the 7.62x39mm originally was .300" x .310" on the bore and groove and to my knowledge it hasn't changed. What this or that manufacturer is physically putting on the gun can vary widely. We've made test barrels in military spec. and others that had the bores at .299" x .3118" and who knows what this or that European manufacturer is making them to. When we receive an order for this caliber unless they say Saami spec. I make them give me the spec. I won't guess at it and then someone say, "You made it to the wrong spec.!".

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Grimstod]

Any rifle that is of the Russian calibers has always been surrounded by the greatest amount of confusion.

 

[Grimstod]

Damon,

I specified a 308 bore. Ruger and Savage and CZ said that their 7.62 X 39 were all running a 308 bore. I measured my Lapua cartridges and they were 308. All my Czech guns are 312 or 313 bores and so are the AKs I believe. I think they do that so the guns will run poor quality bullets and ALSO that clearance lets the gun run cooler. Accuracy drops to 4 MOA or worse.

Is that for loaded ammo? If so pull one and measure the base. Almost all Russian ammo is 308 but when you pull and measure below the crimp line its .311 or .310-312

 

[normmatzen]

25 Years ago I bought a Chicom SKS, parachute model along with 1000 rounds of Wolf ammo. The gun cost $110 and the ammo $100!

I took it deer hunting on a lark and shot a nice black tail, one shot, one kill.

I put a $20 Chicom scope on it and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it.
15 years later, I moved to an area with a great shooting club and I found out they had monthly Vintage Silhouette matches. Well, the SKS was all I had that was legal for the matches. I never did real well, but the darn thing would hit Rams at 500 yd! "Course, it didn't have enough poop at 500 yd to knock them over. This was with cheap Wolf ammo. I developed a bit more respect for the SKS, but without the useless scope!
I still think a decent rifle with a good barrel would be a real shooter in 7.62X39. Even my SKS is good for California Black Tail and has accuracy as good as the average hunting rifle. And, it'll kill deer and pigs easily.

 

[Riesel]

If you're looking for a truck gun that will handle nicely and shoot well build a .308 x 39mm rifle with a 18" barrel on an old Savage action with the PPC bolt head. Use the Hornady 125 grain SST and it will cleanly take deer, drop hogs, annihilate raccoons and send large rats to the moon.

 

[johned]

Is that for loaded ammo? If so pull one and measure the base. Almost all Russian ammo is 308 but when you pull and measure below the crimp line its .311 or .310-312

I did that long ago and found that the bullets were uniform. Not saying that it isn't true but only that that was not my finding at that time.

Thanks for your comment

 

[johned]

25 Years ago I bought a Chicom SKS, parachute model along with 1000 rounds of Wolf ammo. The gun cost $110 and the ammo $100!

I took it deer hunting on a lark and shot a nice black tail, one shot, one kill.

I put a $20 Chicom scope on it and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it.
15 years later, I moved to an area with a great shooting club and I found out they had monthly Vintage Silhouette matches. Well, the SKS was all I had that was legal for the matches. I never did real well, but the darn thing would hit Rams at 500 yd! "Course, it didn't have enough poop at 500 yd to knock them over. This was with cheap Wolf ammo. I developed a bit more respect for the SKS, but without the useless scope!
I still think a decent rifle with a good barrel would be a real shooter in 7.62X39. Even my SKS is good for California Black Tail and has accuracy as good as the average hunting rifle. And, it'll kill deer and pigs easily.

What passes for "hunting accuracy" has always amazed me. 4 MOA seems the norm.

 

[GSPV]

If you're looking for a truck gun that will handle nicely and shoot well build a .308 x 39mm rifle with a 18" barrel on an old Savage action with the PPC bolt head. Use the Hornady 125 grain SST and it will cleanly take deer, drop hogs, annihilate raccoons and send large rats to the moon.

It's pretty easy to neck the 6.5 Grendel up to 30. It's a very nice cartridge. "GunsAndGunsmithing" on here, Mike Ezell, has all the poop on it. I have two: a benchrest bolt gun and a hunting AR. Here is a recent five shot group from the bench gun trying out a totally new powder.

 

[2506]

As has been said the mass produced Wolf etc. ammo is what I call minute of barn door accurate. I have a couple Yugo SKS's and decided to load for them. The only reloadable cases I could find were Lapua and I got some Hornady .310 diameter 123 gr interlock bullets and found that a case full of H322 fired by a CCI 200 primer was ragged hole accurate at 70 yards and this is with the open sights and 58 year old eyes.

 

[ebb]

Damoncali the current world record smallest 5 shot group is held by a guy shooting a 30PPC ( a 7.62-39 with a 308 barrel and 308 bullets) nothing weird about it . Just the most accurate in the world.