M1A accuracy by model

[germanlongbow]

I'm on my 3rd builder my a custom M25 LRB action (scope dedicatd with iron sight backup). It has a built in rail, match trigger assembly and sits in a G3 JAE stock. First barrel wouldn't hold less than 3 MOA at 100 yards. Second builder and new barrel shot 1.5 MOA but had issues with adaptor/barrel alignment and suppressor. Rilfe and it's twin are at the third builder. Rifle is torn completely down and being rebuilt again with third barrel and a guarantee it will shoot (as good as a M1A can - 0.75 - 1MOA at best) with a suppressor. I won't mention how much I have sunk into rifle setup, but safe to say you could buy several S&B PM II scopes with cash to spare. I built mine to shoot 1000 yards to play on steel. I have other precision rifles that are purpose build for accuracy. The M1a was supposed to be a fun build, quick follow-up shots capable of 1-1.5 MOA on a good day. This one will when it returns later this month. I'm sure you could easily build an AR10 that is more accurate than the M1a. It's just one of those guns I've always wanted.

 

[kevinbritvec]

Anyone wanting the most accurate M1-A needs to start with the Springfield Armory "Super Match" model and go up in price from there. The McMillan fiberglass stock is definitely better than wood.

I fired M1-A's in competition from 1984 to 1994 which is when the black rifles took over. I had two rifles, one for practice, one for tournaments. The practice rifle was a Super Match direct from Springfield Armory, the tournament rifle was built by the late Glen Nelson of Nelson Custom Guns, Columbus, GA.

Several noted gunsmiths welded front and rear lugs to the receivers to improve the bedding and remove the trigger groups from securing the rifle in the stock. You simply torqued the lugs to 65 inch pounds and fired the rifle. Donald "Mac" McCoy, built a M1 Garand for me using this method.

I fired my personal best (489-500) in 1989 shooting a M1-A. I have never fired better than 482 with an AR-15.

M1-A's need to be re-bedded every year. Once the original bedding job was performed by a professional I had enough faith in my skills to simply skim bed again at home. Not shoring up the bedding every year is a guarantee that the rifle will go south on you, usually during an important match.

G.I. parts are extremely expensive nowadays, in the 1980's new parts were easily found and not too pricey. Good M14 gunsmiths are harder to find now as well. Swapping a barrel at home is outside the scope of what I'm willing to try. AR15's make that easy.

I won't ever sell my M1-A's as long as I'm capable of using them, but I would never buy into them at this late stage of the game. I had both of them rebuilt by Shooters Choice 15 years ago and haven't put more than fifty rounds through either one since re-barreled. They are a blast from my past.

 

[rmr]

I have a M1 garand (30-06) that was built by one of the best. its a work of art and shoots fantastic for a M1: right around 3/4 - 7/8" at 100. I handle it like a carton of eggs for fear of damaging the fore-end mods. I love it to death, but its much like a classic '68 mustang.. a sunday driver.

last weekend (3 days ago) I finished a AR10 build with a 20" lilja barrel. (308) it took me a couple of hours to assemble everything and with no load development it is running 5/8" with sierra 168's. its not as pretty as the M1, but I can *use* it, not admire it from afar.

 

[Bamban]

Someone took a video when I shot my M1a at an informal match at Best of the West - 1000 yards with irons on steel plate 18x24. The condition was fairly subtle, the 168 Hybrids at 2800 did well. Younger and better shooter would probably shot 10/10. The match rule, 1 sighter and 10 record shots. That was the last time I shot the double lugged M1a with Melonited barrel that is approaching 7K rounds. Just saying the 14 types are fun to ahoot.

Question. Isn't the Interservice Individual record is still held by a 14, something like 995-50X by a Marine?

 

[M14AMU]

My buddy Billy C. Atkins from Georgia has probably won the Farr Trophy Match (Wimbledon Match) more than any other shooter! Was CWO-3 on USAR Team. This match limited to M14 shooters only....back in the day!

 

[banjoguy]

.....
M1-A's need to be re-bedded every year. Once the original bedding job was performed by a professional I had enough faith in my skills to simply skim bed again at home. Not shoring up the bedding every year is a guarantee that the rifle will go south on you, usually during an important match.

Your mileage may vary. Mine held pretty tight back when I was shooting 2500rds a year. I think it was three years before I started to detect some issues at 600yds and skimmed it. There is a fair amount of magic involved in building a match M14. And it does take some work from time to time to maintain.

 

[lloydx2]

M1-A is super labor intensive to build. You cant make any money at it. Properly
bedding alone is at least a 3 step process. Many believed that preloading the stock ferrule
with downward pressure helped quite the barrel harmonics. This was key with this type of gas system
This process had to have good vertical parallelism with the stock. As did the receiver and trigger guard.
This took time, understanding, and technique. Bedding non lug guns could be done quite successfully if
bedding into a modified (steel) stock liner. With composite stocks this was a must. Using the steel liner
as a bedding frame for the action was less problematic than lugged receivers in my opinion
One reason the rifle got a rep as (high maintenance) was because they were not built (bedded) correctly to begin with.
When Krieger started producing cut M1-A barrels , These guns became capable of 1/2 moa @ 100.

 

[Rtheurer]

My buddy Billy C. Atkins

Who ?... Never heard of him.....

 

[M14AMU]

Who ?... Never heard of him.....

At age 116 I guess it just slipped your mind!

 

[Rtheurer]

At age 116 I guess it just slipped your mind!

Lol. Miss Billy C.

At least when CJ was still shooting he would come to Perry and we all would get to see him once a year.

 

[rminut]

I was able to buy a Obermeyer heavy barrel recently. I bought it from a guy that was an NG shooter and he bought it from his buddy that was AMU reserve in the CT. area. The serial number and his memory date it to late 80's, early 90's. My question is did these Obermeyer rough contoured barrels need much more than the chamber and muzzle threading to be complete or do they need a bunch more lathe work? thanks for any help.

 

[Bamban]

Lots of work, exactly as the description says, rough contour. You have to finish the final contour, cut the thread for the gas cylinder lock, cut the thread for the muzzle and cut the splines, on top of cutting and the threading the tenon, chambers it, and crown. Almost forgot, still have to cut for the handguard clip. Research the M14 barrel print for all the dimensions, and angles of the cuts.

You might as well start from a straight blank, you are just saving a little wear on your cutters with a rough contour.

 

[rminut]

thanks Nez.

 

[cdparker]

Wow, I sure wish that folks would use their own name for these posts. I have probably shot with most of you, if I knew who you really were. I did meet Nez, so I say "HI". During my XC days, I used two Smith receiver M14's, Krieger and Obermeyer barrels. Both guns were double lugged and bolted in. I loved them so much that I still have them. I'm the guy from Alaska. We gave out Alaska type pins (flags, walruses, and other neat stuff) to those we shot with. I have chromed M14 magazines with Genuine Harley-Davidson Parts stickers on them. It was a joke but you should remember them. I have two Palma Service rifle pins and 5 Perry Legs. Finally got the P100 in '97. You guys have brought back some real great memories--Thanks,
Craig

 

[Bamban]

Craig,

Glad to see you drop in. It has been awhile since we saw each other on the firing line. I have not been to Perry the last 3 years, with the change in schedule for 2018, I plan on being there.

Hope all is well for you in the cold country. I still remember the real frigid days (one year) at Cape Lisburne back in 73.

With my bad shoulders I have not shot the 14 in competition, still have a couple of double lugged ones just for the memories. Maybe we should train hard one of these years and see if a couple of old guys with old guns can make the P100.


Nez

 

[S.B.]

Barrel are not beded actions are?
Steve

 

[Zero333]

I have a Norinco M305 ( M14 clone built in China with the Original US M14 tooling, machinery and spare parts).

With the iron sights and Handloads at 109 yards. Nothing modified on the gun, just the way it came from chinkland. I'm very happy with it.

 

[Chris F]

Lots of cool kids on this thread. I've shot the M14 a bit (though not as much as CKunz). Since this thread was revived by others, I'll add some recollections. My experience with the M14 is that it is a maintenance pig. I'd break parts regularly and it required a rebed every season. I probably shot 3500 to 4000 rounds a year back then. My friend was a 2112 with the USMC and he told me their double lugged guns, while more accurate were even more maintenance intensive. He said a good shooting team, double lug would group 1 moa at 300 yards out of the cradle (this was 3 consecutive, 10 shot groups). The post and station rear lugs were a little less accurate, but less maintenance intensive. There's an account of the AMU's transition from the M14 the M16a2. There were a lot more 10x cleans shot when they transitioned to the M16's than were ever shot with the M14's.
Billy C Atkins won the Farr trophy twice. He was neither the first, nor the last to win it twice. Frank Hoffman (USMC) did it in '51 and '52. Walter Smith, Joe Sopko, Kyle Ward, and Scott Grant have also won it twice. One is a a great accomplishment and it by no means diminishes his accomplishment. He remains a great shooter.
http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/nat-trophy/tro-073.pdf

If I were to build up an M14 today, I'd get hold of Bamban and pick his brain...maybe see if I could get craig to weld on some lugs for me