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6XC barrel life

My original 6XC S tube on my #1 T2K just passed the 2848 round count. My last 600 yd match netted me a 196 @ 600 yds. However in a 300 yd match this last Sat I had a small Water Mellon size group @ 300 yds with a proven load. Elevation problems out the ying yang. It seemed to settle down after 12 rounds but the 8 ring size group had already done me in. Looks like that tube is toast. Just wondering what others have had in their 6XC barrels? I have cleaned it dilligenently with Shooters Choice and a cycle with Luster Lap 3 micron @ every cleaning.
I have not run the Hawkey in the tube but from the way it shot, it is toast. I'll give the tube one more shot in Charlotte XTC match this Sat. The barrel is clean with a good soak of SC and a couple cycles of LL. I'll run the Hawkeye in the tube for a look see later on today. Reid
 
Reid,
I dont think you throat maintenance is aggresive enough to sustain continued accuracy.
If you tried about a half dozen TMS bullets I would bet it would bring back your accuracy for several hundred more shots. The polishing,compound) you are using is like knocking off 2" off of a 50' rise when in fact you need to be wacking off 3 feet of the 50'rise in order to do some good.
DTubb
 
Paul,
Had a total joint on Aug 14th. Cant do anything for a least 10 more days. I figure rehab will take at least a couple of months.
DTubb
 
Hi David
Glad to hear that the surgery went well after the scare you had. I am also glad to see you are responding to some of these threads. I would like to quiz you on some of the rational behind the directions included with the TMS bullets. I currently use them in my 30 cal., 6.5, & 6mm's. The question I have is why do we need to tone them down in velocity as compared to our conventional loads? I shoot one round at the end of every days match whether it is a 3/60, Palma or whatever. I know of a couple other shooters who just shoot the same load they normally do but with one of your TMS bullets. I try to follow religiously the directions you included with them but I would like to know your logic in keeping the velocity down or does it really matter. Thanks,
Sponge baths SUCK,
Allen Elliott
 
Allene,
Most competitors are using close to a max load with their ammunition.
From SSS standpoint it only makes sense to let the load down when shooting a grit impregnated bullet down the bore,slighty oversize diameter from the grit).
All the bullet needs to do is opturate and pass through barrel.
One has plenty of pressure with the reduced load to make the TMS bullet do it's stuff.

DTubb
 
David Tubb, You are absolutely Correct. The diamond Dust I've been using is not enough. Below is the saga I've just experienced.

I just finished cleaning my original 25” Polygon, Schneider barrel that came on my #1 T2K with a good scrub of Butches Bore Shine, followed up by 50 strokes of 3 micron Luster Lap diamond paste. The barrel has a documented 2903 rounds of Danzac Coated Bullets and was used in XTC. All the 200 yd ammo was with 35.0 gr Varget and a 70 gr Sierra. 300 yds was with either an 85 gr Sie or the 90 gr Berger and 34.0 gr Varget. 600 was 39.0 gr IMR 4350 and the 107 Sierra. The barrel is toast. I took it to Charlotte this last Sunday and used a known, great load of 34.0 gr Varget with the 90 gr Berger, Russian primer in a Norma 22-250 case, 6 times fired as 6XC. It just barely held the 10 ring on the 600 yd target reduced for 300. Today after cleaning, I ran in my 17” Hawkeye in for a look see. Most interesting and this is the point of the following narrative.

Just in front of the chamber where the case neck ends, there were narrow, lengthwise streaks/cuts in the steel about 1/8” long and ?deep?. Lands were gone for about 1 ½”. MILD Lake Bed Cracking,LBC) with no serious chunks of throat flaked away. Beyond that 1 ½” was mild LBC and a gradual appearance of the lands. They were covered with mild LBC as were the groves. Now this is the interesting part.
Beyond the first 2-3” or so of the barrel, things looked ok with only moderate LBC and frosted lands. Then around the 8-10” point things got ugly! In my cleaning routine I use the Luster Lap diamond past and really scrubbed the first 0-8” of the throat area. I’d give it a couple/few strokes all the way
to the end of the tube to clear the Cu. All in all, I really worked on the first 0-8” of the barrel. What I found was that the section of the barrel beyond the 8” point was a REAL MESS. Lands had part of the sides missing with craters in the LBC from flaked away chunks and the sides of the lands were missing chunks with jagged edges! The further up the tube, the worse things appeared. I ran out of the 17” Hawkeye BS B4 I saw the end of the mess. I did not stick the Hawkeye in the muzzle end. I’d had enough. Barrel has been removed and may see a future as a Tomato stake.
Bottom line: I have been using the 1 micron Luster lap on my barrels for the first 500 rounds or so. Then the 3 micron from then on out. From now on, I’ll get me some 5-6 micron stuff and eliminate the 1 and use the 3 to start with. As I was cleaning the tube today, I noted the 3 was not much more than dust. I had to make numerous passes of freshly charged patches of the 3 to get a smooth pass after the first few strokes. The 3 ain’t doing much. I now totally believe that a regiment of clean/lapping of the tube @ each cleaning with the LL is the
only way to go for longer barrel life. Paul/Peter LaBerge were correct. It is my belief the 1 micron is useless. Go with the 3 micron dust to start with and then graduate to the 5-6 stuff after a couple hundred rounds. Hey, guy, sit in your own little cocoons and believe what you wish.
This is what I found and do what you wish. I just ordered some 6 Micron dust from McMasters Carr. It will take a little more aggressive application to smooth thing up after the first few hundred rounds. I was just astounded at the shape of the tube @ the 10” point. Sucker was totally trashed.
Gaps in the lands and heavy LBC in the grooves. All this beyond the point of my lapping with the LL. From now on, I’ll give the tube the full benefit of lapping with LL. RIP original tube. You were a good one. reid
 
I don't believe that extensive lapping/polishing will buy much more bbl life. I have tried regular cleaning,no lapping) and lapping/polishing the throat area on numerous bbls, and it didn't make a very noticeable difference. A 6xc is good for 2000-2400 rounds usually and thats just the way it is. Sometimes less) The bbl is Done @ that point. You won't buy an extra 500+ rounds with all of that polishing. Just my experience.

Chris
 
Reid,

I assume that the bbl you are talking about is a Schneider, button rifled,polygon?).

2800 rds sounds reasonable. My tube is a Krieger and I hope to get at least that round count out of it.

RGDS

Bob
 
So the 6XC IS a barrel burner that needs extreme measures to get more than 2000 rounds of life reliably?
 
Yes Bob it was the origingal 25" Sch P barrel that came on the T2K. The thing shot great up until the last 2 matches. It just seemed to die. That's the way I like it. No screwing around.
Just Toast! I suspect David is correct about running a couple SSS coated bullets down range. I ordered and recieved some Luster Lap 6 micron and just for grins, I'll really give it a going over and on a very slow day, put it back on and shoot a few off the bench @ 300 with a 24X Lepould. Perhaps I can get a couple more Hundred out of it in 200 yd walk & paste matches.
It may not be worth the effort and it'll be a Cold, Slow Day.

I don't think extreme measures are required. This ain't no 22 LR we're talking about. 2000-2500 seems reasonable to me for the level of performance we get. You wanna Play, you gotta Pay.
Reid
 
JER said:
So the 6XC IS a barrel burner that needs extreme measures to get more than 2000 rounds of life reliably?


i have 450,000 rds through my barrel.

i clean with lava soap and rinse with water .:thumb:

i am very upset i expected it to go 500,000 +

I will call sssi in the morning and tell them the bad news.
 
lee_eastridge said:
JER said:
So the 6XC IS a barrel burner that needs extreme measures to get more than 2000 rounds of life reliably?


i have 450,000 rds through my barrel.

i clean with lava soap and rinse with water .:thumb:

i am very upset i expected it to go 500,000 +

I will call sssi in the morning and tell them the bad news.

Lee

I am very upset too - I only get 4900 fps from my DTAC 115's loading,not the 5000+ fps I was expecting) or else the primer pockets loosen up prematurely - could you pass on my displeasure too when you talk to sssi. What kind of outfit are they anyway?

Robert Whitley
 
rcw3 said:
lee_eastridge said:
JER said:
So the 6XC IS a barrel burner that needs extreme measures to get more than 2000 rounds of life reliably?


i have 450,000 rds through my barrel.

i clean with lava soap and rinse with water .:thumb:

i am very upset i expected it to go 500,000 +

I will call sssi in the morning and tell them the bad news.

Lee

I am very upset too - I only get 4900 fps from my DTAC 115's loading,not the 5000+ fps I was expecting) or else the primer pockets loosen up prematurely - could you pass on my displeasure too when you talk to sssi. What kind of outfit are they anyway?

Robert Whitley
will do. on a serious note, I was fully aware of the barrel life beefier I bought my t2k and still couldn't wait for it to arrive. If they ever make a barrel that lasts forever i would chamber it in 6xc. I have no need for anything else in x the course shooting. they do make a everlasting gobstopper ?
 
Lee

Seriously, I too like the 6XC a great deal and I certainly won't speak ill of it, but I am also finding my 6 x 47 Lapua,i.e. a necked down 6.5 x 47 Laupa case) to be at least the equal of the 6XC's I have. The Lapua brass is great. I have some of the new Norma 6XC brass, just have not had time to try it in a 6XC yet.

I got a real laugh out of your lava soap and water clean technique.

Robert Whitley
 
rcw3 said:
Lee

Seriously, I too like the 6XC a great deal and I certainly won't speak ill of it, but I am also finding my 6 x 47 Lapua,i.e. a necked down 6.5 x 47 Laupa case) to be at least the equal of the 6XC's I have. The Lapua brass is great. I have some of the new Norma 6XC brass, just have not had time to try it in a 6XC yet.

I got a real laugh out of your lava soap and water clean technique.

Robert Whitley


Robert,

try 37 g 4350 molly 115 Russian prim velocity ?
10 shots @ 200 can hidebehind a quarter, with the new brass.

also shot a 3x 600 match in tulsa sat and came out with
a 598 38x ,f class)
6.5 x 284 had as much wind as i did . this is a reduced load and is still competitive

"every time I pull it out, people stair." :eek:
 
Reid,
You posted some interesting comments about your toasted barrel. I have been asking some of the people at my local club and shoots, “What happens to a barrel when it goes bad?”
Going bad, I mean going from a good sub Minute of Angle,MOA) to a Minute of Moose,MOM) gun.
The best I have heard is maybe one side throat wears or erodes faster and causes some bullet yaw. Bullet Yaw seems to be hot topic now. Even so, it still had about two feet of good barrel to settle down and get straighter in. Even so and little bullet yaw should not be the difference between MOA and MOM. However, your findings make more since to me. If the entire length of the barrel has some bad spots developing, that should really mess up the barrel harmonic generator and more randomly shift the point of impact. Your barrel might just be a good barrel to test a center fire turner on if the last few inches were not too bad. If we both shot at the same club, I would try to talk you out of your tomato stake and test it with my tuner. My tuner is fasten to the barrel using a Lipski front sight holder and all the mass is below the bore line. My space gun shoots to good at 5000 rounds for me to see any difference and my Tubb is to new. The Wilson barrel I put on my Tubb Gun to fire form brass and learn the gun is having severe throat erosion at the rate of about 11 thousandths per 100 hundred rounds.
 

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