6PPC Powder

[Nick Caprinolo]

I am currently loading 28.2 grs of V133 for my 6PPC. I have read that many are suggesting LT 32 or CFE 223. Does any here use either of these powders? What loads are you using?

Nick

 

[Chris Covell]

I use 28.6 of LT32. I bought 16 pounds, and use it in my 3 PPC rifles.

 

[Tim s]

If this is a benchrest rig, you are on the light side, I’d say most tend to be 29-29.5 with some 30+.
That said, the Lt 32 works quite well and several are starting to shoot LT 30.
I will shoot LT 32 @ 28.2-28.4 with 66-68 grainers in 13.5”-14” twist bbls.

 

[Greyfox]

28.3-28.7 LT 32 has shot in 4-5 PPC barrels for me. I always start with 28.3 and adjust the tuner. I usually don't need to go higher. I do know one shooters who will go to over 30.0, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Rick

 

[Shooter13]

28.3-28.7 LT 32 has shot in 4-5 PPC barrels for me. I always start with 28.3 and adjust the tuner. I usually don't need to go higher. I do know one shooters who will go to over 30.0, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Rick

Are you shooting 66 or 68s?

 

[Greyfox]

Are you shooting 66 or 68s?

68gr Hillbilly's

 

[theallcineyes]

A few years back, the Lyman catalog lists H-335 as the most accurate powder for the 6 ppc with 70 gr bullets, and Varget as the most accurate for 60 gr bullets. Sako brass of course, because that is the factory brass available for the ppc.

The question is, how much longer the 6ppc will be our accuracy champion. It looks like the 30 BR and/or other small capacity 30 calibers are nipping at its heels. The 6 ppc may go the way of the 222, once the many advantages of shooting a 30 cal bullet are fully realized.

 

[Shooter13]

A few years back, the Lyman catalog lists H-335 as the most accurate powder for the 6 ppc with 70 gr bullets, and Varget as the most accurate for 60 gr bullets. Sako brass of course, because that is the factory brass available for the ppc.

The question is, how much longer the 6ppc will be our accuracy champion. It looks like the 30 BR and/or other small capacity 30 calibers are nipping at its heels. The 6 ppc may go the way of the 222, once the many advantages of shooting a 30 cal bullet are fully realized.

So true, but the only thing that is constant is change.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I been hearing that ^ for how many years now? I wish more folks would buy into it but they dont bring them to the matches when it matters.

 

[Greyfox]

A few years back, the Lyman catalog lists H-335 as the most accurate powder for the 6 ppc with 70 gr bullets, and Varget as the most accurate for 60 gr bullets. Sako brass of course, because that is the factory brass available for the ppc.

The question is, how much longer the 6ppc will be our accuracy champion. It looks like the 30 BR and/or other small capacity 30 calibers are nipping at its heels. The 6 ppc may go the way of the 222, once the many advantages of shooting a 30 cal bullet are fully realized.

Something else to consider. Currently, UBR (Ultimate Benchrest) is arguably the most innovative of the benchrest disciplines as it uses a caliber neutral target and has few rules governing stock design etc, other than weight. The number of competitors shooting 30s is dropping and the number of 22 shooters is increasing. Two weeks ago at Dry Branch Rifle Range there were 32 rifles competing in the four classes. There were no 30s at all. There were six variations of 22s. All the rest were varieties of 6mm including 6 Grendel, 6 Grinch, 6 BRA, etc. The 22s are arguably accuracy equals to the 30s, easier to handle and cheaper to shoot.

Rick

 

[rkittine]

I bought LT30 and LT32 but have not tried them yet, so this thread is of interest to me. I have heard about LT31 - Mixing of LT30 and 32 50/50? Anyone doing that?

Bob

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Went to the range and tried LT32 for the first time. It rocks. Done with N133 for now. Thank you Dusty for the great information. I ran a ladder test and found 28.2 grs works for me although all of the 6 loads tested
were great.

 

[Shooter13]

Well, on @Dusty Stevens and @Greyfox advice (see I'll blame you guys for my bad shooting ;-)) I found what appears to be the only 8lbs of LT32 in existence! I'll have it friday and not in time for the shoot on saturday in Somerset, maybe if I can talk John into going to Jonesville, VA on the 25th I will have had time to test some.

 

[Shooter13]

Something else to consider. Currently, UBR (Ultimate Benchrest) is arguably the most innovative of the benchrest disciplines as it uses a caliber neutral target and has few rules governing stock design etc, other than weight. The number of competitors shooting 30s is dropping and the number of 22 shooters is increasing. Two weeks ago at Dry Branch Rifle Range there were 32 rifles competing in the four classes. There were no 30s at all. There were six variations of 22s. All the rest were varieties of 6mm including 6 Grendel, 6 Grinch, 6 BRA, etc. The 22s are arguably accuracy equals to the 30s, easier to handle and cheaper to shoot.

Rick

Hopefully there will be one very soon!

 

[snert]

Ok, so if the 22 are coming back, anyone want to venture telling this 22PPC USA shooter a reasonable load for LT32 in a 22 PPC and 52 grain match bullet?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I been hearing that ^ for how many years now? I wish more folks would buy into it but they dont bring them to the matches when it matters.

Every target, at every match for 40 years...virtually every single shooter using a ppc, tried their best to break a record for small group at 100. Only a few years after introduction, a variation of a 30 Major broke it. Can you do the math for me on that? It has to be in the millions of attempts! I'm not saying a ppc is bad...it is NOT. What I am saying is that if every monkey in the world shoots the same thing, at every match by shooting the same thing that keeps beating them...it's likely to keep on happening. Kinda very much like how we define the word "crazy." The most accurate cartridge I have ever held in my hand is a 30 Major, which is a Grendel necked to 30 cal. And while all records take some amount of luck and stars aligning, Stinnett kicked butt leading up to his record.

It is what it is and it's high time people started recognizing that there just might be something that can hang with or beat a ppc. Otherwise, we stagnate.

I designed the first 30 Major and I continue to shoot it but there are pros and cons to consistently shooting it well. Like the 30BR, it holds tune exceptionally well and it flat out shoots. But, it's a 30 and it has more recoil than a 6, making it harder to consistently shoot as well as a smaller caliber. I don't agree with a 6 being cheaper to shoot when barrel life is factored in. And, as for recoil...it's doable as Stinnett did it in a LV rifle with a tuner.

Personally, I've probably got way more experience with it than anyone and I've seen it do things that I've never been able to do with any other cartridge...repeatedly, but that doesn't make it perfect or without compromise. What's best for one shooter may not be best for another, due to mainly recoil.

I am a big believer in the Grendel case, either way. I'm mostly shooting it as a 6mm at the moment. It's wonderful like that too...And yes, some are showing up in the winner's circle. As long as 99.9% of shooters shoot the same thing...guess what will usually win. We are still the biggest variable. It takes a lot of winning to change people's minds. Some people will never change. In this day, there is very little room to improve. We are seeing near zero aggs today! When a ppc took over, we were shooting mid to high .2's on a good day, generally speaking. Can you imagine that today? I do not believe that you or anyone else can convince me that if 99% of shooters were shooting a 30 Major, that a ppc would dominate . Same goes for a 6 Grendel or the Beggs family of cartridges. We are right on top of new ground but the mentality that you have to be shooting a ppc to win is holding us back. Great cartridge, no doubt!

 

[Greyfox]

Ok, so if the 22 are coming back, anyone want to venture telling this 22PPC USA shooter a reasonable load for LT32 in a 22 PPC and 52 grain match bullet?

Would be happy to help, but even though I shoot a couple of 22s, neither is a 22 PPC. I shoot a 220 Beggs and a 22 PPC-.100. If I were going to shoot LT 32 in a 22PPC I would start with the powder up to the base of the neck and work from there. I use 26.0 grs of LT 32 in the 220 Beggs and I have a friend who uses up to 27.5 in the same.

Rick

 

[ebb]

I was sure that when the rules changed and you could shoot 22 caliber bullets that the waldog was going to be unbeatable. I shot one that belonged to a friend and I asked to buy it and he quoted me a price. I thought if I waited a little while he would come down, He sold it out from under me to a lady that thought it was a pet. She wouldn't sell it for $10,000. Her son is into guns and she cleans his clock with it once or twice a year.

 

[BoydAllen]

Every target, at every match for 40 years...virtually every single shooter using a ppc, tried their best to break a record for small group at 100. Only a few years after introduction, a variation of a 30 Major broke it. Can you do the math for me on that? It has to be in the millions of attempts! I'm not saying a ppc is bad...it is NOT. What I am saying is that if every monkey in the world shoots the same thing, at every match by shooting the same thing that keeps beating them...it's likely to keep on happening. Kinda very much like how we define the word "crazy." The most accurate cartridge I have ever held in my hand is a 30 Major, which is a Grendel necked to 30 cal. And while all records take some amount of luck and stars aligning, Stinnett kicked butt leading up to his record.

It is what it is and it's high time people started recognizing that there just might be something that can hang with or beat a ppc. Otherwise, we stagnate.

I designed the first 30 Major and I continue to shoot it but there are pros and cons to consistently shooting it well. Like the 30BR, it holds tune exceptionally well and it flat out shoots. But, it's a 30 and it has more recoil than a 6, making it harder to consistently shoot as well as a smaller caliber. I don't agree with a 6 being cheaper to shoot when barrel life is factored in. And, as for recoil...it's doable as Stinnett did it in a LV rifle with a tuner.

Personally, I've probably got way more experience with it than anyone and I've seen it do things that I've never been able to do with any other cartridge...repeatedly, but that doesn't make it perfect or without compromise. What's best for one shooter may not be best for another, due to mainly recoil.

I am a big believer in the Grendel case, either way. I'm mostly shooting it as a 6mm at the moment. It's wonderful like that too...And yes, some are showing up in the winner's circle. As long as 99.9% of shooters shoot the same thing...guess what will usually win. We are still the biggest variable. It takes a lot of winning to change people's minds. Some people will never change. In this day, there is very little room to improve. We are seeing near zero aggs today! When a ppc took over, we were shooting mid to high .2's on a good day, generally speaking. Can you imagine that today? I do not believe that you or anyone else can convince me that if 99% of shooters were shooting a 30 Major, that a ppc would dominate . Same goes for a 6 Grendel or the Beggs family of cartridges. We are right on top of new ground but the mentality that you have to be shooting a ppc to win is holding us back. Great cartridge, no doubt!

Small groups as individual things do not win benchrest matches. They need to be shot consistently to produce small aggregates, grand aggs, and two, three, or four gun winners. As I understand it, the fellow who holds the current record had been shooting a lot of four and ones leading up to the record group. Tuning for an agg. is different in that you are trying to avoid any large groups, and to that end Boyer has said that he intentionally tunes for a little vertical, to give himself some protection. I am always in favor of experimentation, and pleased when that works out. Looking at the record books, are any of the aggregate records held by unusual calibers?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Small groups as individual things do not win benchrest matches. They need to be shot consistently to produce small aggregates, grand aggs, and two, three, or four gun winners. As I understand it, the fellow who holds the current record had been shooting a lot of four and ones leading up to the record group. Tuning for an agg. is different in that you are trying to avoid any large groups, and to that end Boyer has said that he intentionally tunes for a little vertical, to give himself some protection. I am always in favor of experimentation, and pleased when that works out. Looking at the record books, are any of the aggregate records held by unusual calibers?

Boyd, our recollection is different regarding Stinnett's season leading up to the record. As I recall, he'd been on fire that season. That said, recoil is the biggest variable to consistency as the 30's have proven to maintain tune consistency very well compared to the 6's over the years. He did it with a 10-1/2lb rifle, which I'm sure was a bear to manage vs a ppc.
As to the record books and calibers other than a ppc, that gets straight to my point about what will win if everyone shoots the same thing. Same applies to records, IMO.

Back to your point about consistency...Sure, recoil is a huge concern in that area. A 13.5lb rifle helps that tremendously but it'll still hit harder than a 6, no question. Tune consistency, the edge goes to the 30 by a large margin but tuners have really leveled that area of late. The format, be it group or score matters as well, due to most group shoots being both lv and hv vs score, for all practical purposes, is a hv game. In UBR, which is caliber neutral score, and has a fairly diverse selection of chamberings, the 30's do win from time to time but Rick is right, that more and more shooters have gravitated to the 6 and 22's, myself included, for the most part, as I've been shooting a 6 Grendel and I also see it as a cartridge worthy of contending with a ppc. Again, I shoot caliber neutral UBR where there is no scoring advantage from shooting a bigger bullet and I use tuners....both big reasons why one would typically choose a 30 over a 6.

I simply don't believe the old adage that if something is better, that everyone will instantly gravitate to it any more. We as a group are very slow to change(understatement) and anymore, there is not enough room for earth shattering improvement to sway the band wagon away from a very fine 6ppc.

As I said before, I've seen my 30 Majors do things that I've never seen any other gun do, firsthand and I'm not talking about over a day or even a season, but over several years. Again, shooting a 30 has its pros and its cons but if 99.9% of everyone were shooting one, any other cartridge would have a hard time breaking through, including the venerable ppc.