CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
Been shooting 6 mm Rem since the early 60's. Know why?
Cause it's good.
Cause it's good.
6mm rem vs 243?
- Thread starter tjassman84
- Start date
It like splitting hairs - the coyote will never know the difference. You can't go wrong with either one.
I've been shooting and reloadng the 243 since the late 60's. It's a great cartridge. I currently have four. I would opt for the 243 only because brass is a lot more readily available and everyone is making rifles for it. Although if you're going custom the latter is not an issue.
A great bullet for coyote's in the Sierra 85 grain BTHP with IMR 4350 or IMR 4064. Shoots like a match bullet.
There's been a lot of negative post on barrel life for the 243. True it's an overbore cartridge but I've never wore out a barrel in 1800 rounds like a lot claim. My Rem 700 which is pushing 3,000 rounds still holds 1 moa which is adequate for hunting. However I should mention that I've never shot max load in it either.
I've been shooting and reloadng the 243 since the late 60's. It's a great cartridge. I currently have four. I would opt for the 243 only because brass is a lot more readily available and everyone is making rifles for it. Although if you're going custom the latter is not an issue.
A great bullet for coyote's in the Sierra 85 grain BTHP with IMR 4350 or IMR 4064. Shoots like a match bullet.
There's been a lot of negative post on barrel life for the 243. True it's an overbore cartridge but I've never wore out a barrel in 1800 rounds like a lot claim. My Rem 700 which is pushing 3,000 rounds still holds 1 moa which is adequate for hunting. However I should mention that I've never shot max load in it either.
You get a velocity edge with the 6mm, but a coyote is not going to know the difference. It is a lot easier getting good brass for the 243 and it runs just fine in a short action.
To echo above:
.243/AI is a short action cartridge. You can seat the longest 115gr .243 cal. bullets out to 2.900"+ and still feed them. Excellent Lapua brass is available, and more affordable Win/Rem/FC is easily found. .243 also get the nod for variety of factory ammo choices, if that matters...
6mm/AI has the capacity advantage, but is a long action cartridge if you wish to seat a bullet where it needs to be to realize it. Quality 'out of the box' brass is not an option...
As Phil recently stated in another thread:
.243 for a short action
6mm for a long action
.243/AI is a short action cartridge. You can seat the longest 115gr .243 cal. bullets out to 2.900"+ and still feed them. Excellent Lapua brass is available, and more affordable Win/Rem/FC is easily found. .243 also get the nod for variety of factory ammo choices, if that matters...
6mm/AI has the capacity advantage, but is a long action cartridge if you wish to seat a bullet where it needs to be to realize it. Quality 'out of the box' brass is not an option...
As Phil recently stated in another thread:
.243 for a short action
6mm for a long action
When I had a .243 AI built by David Tooley I was torn between the 6AI or the .243AI so I asked him which one and why. His own words were .243AI and why was brass. You get much better brass for the .243 than you can with the 6mm
So I had him build it and I have to say I shot the smallest 100 yard group I've ever shot with that rifle using 80 grain Bergers. I sold it and sure wish I had it back.
So I had him build it and I have to say I shot the smallest 100 yard group I've ever shot with that rifle using 80 grain Bergers. I sold it and sure wish I had it back.
"Your varmint rifle will be ruined if you put a long throat when you want to shoot shorter bullets. Don't let anyone talk you into a set up for shooting 105g bullets unless you want to shoot a 105g bullet, 243 caliber varmint bullets DO NOT LIKE a lot of bullet jump when you are trying to attain bug hole accuracy."
my buddies and i have not found this to be true. we have quite a few big sixes set up for 105 bullets and at least 8 of these rifles will also shoot 55 ballistic tips very well even though the bullets are way off the jam. i have two 6 mm rems and a 243 AI with long throats that shoot the light bullets very fast , and group quite well as long as you dont go over 4100fps.
all three of us take light and heavy bullets to shoot p dogs with these rifles each year.
my buddies and i have not found this to be true. we have quite a few big sixes set up for 105 bullets and at least 8 of these rifles will also shoot 55 ballistic tips very well even though the bullets are way off the jam. i have two 6 mm rems and a 243 AI with long throats that shoot the light bullets very fast , and group quite well as long as you dont go over 4100fps.
all three of us take light and heavy bullets to shoot p dogs with these rifles each year.
It's not the freebore but the twist that's hurting you. Too slow of twist for a 6mm with bigger bullets. Matt
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Over the years, there has been a lot of talk on the turbulence point, where the shoulder angles will intersect, and the length of the neck. I shot the 6 rem and 243 side by side on dog towns in the 80's and early 90's. The 243's always had their throats shot out faster. We could care less about barrels at that time, we were sitting on p. dog towns 30 miles long and 11 miles wide and they were rarely if ever shot. We shot till we could not see through the scopes, cooled the barrels by running water down the tube, went back to shooting. We carried a 6 gallon bucket full of ammo dedicated for each rifle, and averaged 650-1100 rounds of centerfire per day.
All rifles wore Hart SS barrels, minimum twist, zero freebore. Throat wear with ball powder was about .070 per 1700 rounds in the 243AI and 6 Remington, and more for the 243. This leade growth was in a shooting style where we would dump out a bag of 50 rounds and fire single shot about as fast as you could load and acquire a target, with as many as 12 p.dogs in the scope at a time. We would shoot a rifle till we could not see through the scope from barrel heat, then grab another rifle or cool, depending on the target density.
In the early days, around 1979 we shot the barrels out of 8 rifles on one trip using IMR 4064 in 220 swifts, 22/250's, 243's. The 6 Remingtons were worse for the wear but they were still shooting 5/8" at 200. We concluded then that IMR 4064 while good for accuracy and speed really ate barrels. So, we went to ball powders. New barrels on most rifles for the next trip a month later, after ordering two cases of Win 760.
Strange that the 243 AI's seemed to be easier on barrels than the std 243, we concluded the 40* shoulder angle changed the turbulence point, and the ball powder was also magic in extending the shooting strings till cleaning was needed. The 243 AI's did not foul out till beyond 450 rounds with the 70g nosler going 3850 out of 28"+ barrel lengths. A friend that had never shot dogs before flew out with two new 6 Rem 40X's and a 1000 round for each rifle. We found a new dog town on the slopes of a river and he shot 750 rounds out of a new 6Rem 40x and never cleaned, then the next day did the same for the other, all rounds loaded with 760 and 70g Nosler ballistic tips. He never quit connecting on the dogs, his gun never fouled out.
The 6 Rem is within 150 fps of the 243 AI, both with 26" long barrels.
Maybe this may help with a decision as to which to build, my take would be a 243 AI on a short action, and a 6 Rem AI on a long action as there is 200 fps between the two using 760 in both, 70g Noslers, and 26" barrels.
The problem with the 6 Rem and the 6 AI is the case is just too long for a short action 700 if/when you want to use the magazine and chase the lands as the leade grows. I did continue to shoot IMR 4064 in dedicated sporter coyote rifles in 6 Remington with the 80g Sierra going 3600 into bug holes with Hart 12 Twist barrels, and 3800 in the 6 AI.
No one ever mentions the length of the neck on the 6 Remington and I do believe that the longer neck adds to some barrel life.
The 6 Remington seems to be headed for extinction along with the 7 STW and many others as the brass has not been made for years.
All rifles wore Hart SS barrels, minimum twist, zero freebore. Throat wear with ball powder was about .070 per 1700 rounds in the 243AI and 6 Remington, and more for the 243. This leade growth was in a shooting style where we would dump out a bag of 50 rounds and fire single shot about as fast as you could load and acquire a target, with as many as 12 p.dogs in the scope at a time. We would shoot a rifle till we could not see through the scope from barrel heat, then grab another rifle or cool, depending on the target density.
In the early days, around 1979 we shot the barrels out of 8 rifles on one trip using IMR 4064 in 220 swifts, 22/250's, 243's. The 6 Remingtons were worse for the wear but they were still shooting 5/8" at 200. We concluded then that IMR 4064 while good for accuracy and speed really ate barrels. So, we went to ball powders. New barrels on most rifles for the next trip a month later, after ordering two cases of Win 760.
Strange that the 243 AI's seemed to be easier on barrels than the std 243, we concluded the 40* shoulder angle changed the turbulence point, and the ball powder was also magic in extending the shooting strings till cleaning was needed. The 243 AI's did not foul out till beyond 450 rounds with the 70g nosler going 3850 out of 28"+ barrel lengths. A friend that had never shot dogs before flew out with two new 6 Rem 40X's and a 1000 round for each rifle. We found a new dog town on the slopes of a river and he shot 750 rounds out of a new 6Rem 40x and never cleaned, then the next day did the same for the other, all rounds loaded with 760 and 70g Nosler ballistic tips. He never quit connecting on the dogs, his gun never fouled out.
The 6 Rem is within 150 fps of the 243 AI, both with 26" long barrels.
Maybe this may help with a decision as to which to build, my take would be a 243 AI on a short action, and a 6 Rem AI on a long action as there is 200 fps between the two using 760 in both, 70g Noslers, and 26" barrels.
The problem with the 6 Rem and the 6 AI is the case is just too long for a short action 700 if/when you want to use the magazine and chase the lands as the leade grows. I did continue to shoot IMR 4064 in dedicated sporter coyote rifles in 6 Remington with the 80g Sierra going 3600 into bug holes with Hart 12 Twist barrels, and 3800 in the 6 AI.
No one ever mentions the length of the neck on the 6 Remington and I do believe that the longer neck adds to some barrel life.
The 6 Remington seems to be headed for extinction along with the 7 STW and many others as the brass has not been made for years.
CJ6
Silver $$ Contributor
It's not that you "can't" feed or cycle them ,it's that the longer bullets eat up too much powder space (seated too deep into the case) and handicapping the bullet/case combination.
Both 6mm and .243 will destroy a coyote pelt...the 6mm will destroy it 100 fps. faster. I just ordered some 70 bt's last night because the 70 varmagedons seem to leave a rather large entrance hole. Nearly all of my shots are well under 200 yards and will never be over 300 so I like the lighter faster bullets since bc isn't an issue and this way I can hold dead on and not have to use my brain for 99% of my shots. I also have a 55 bst load that is around .5" higher poi at 100 but the 70's group a hair better and at around 3400 they still shoot flat enough to take the though process out of my shot.
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You mention that this will be a coyote gun. About a year ago I built my dream coyote calling rifle. It is a 243 AI built on a Rem 700 short action. It was barreled with a #3 (Heavy Sporter) fluted Bartlein 5R barrel w/ 1:12 twist finished @ 20". This is bedded in a HS sporter stock & has a Timney 510 set @ 2#. It wears a Nikon Monarch 3-12X40 in Warne Maxima rings on a Warne Tactical one piece mount. This rifle shoots 85 gr Sierra GK HPBTs @ 3350 fps into one hole at 100 yards when seated over a healthy dose of IMR 4350 w/ F210M primers & Nosler brass. It is by far & away my favorite & most accurate rifle that I have ever owned. It is short & fast handling, but has enough weight to be very stable when resting on shooting sticks when Ol Wylie hangs up a ways out there. If your not hunting for pelts, I would highly recommend the 243 AI.
I love the 6mm Remington and that would be my pick. It is an accurate cartridge that is about just perfect in powder capacity and is not overbore. I have shot many gophers, coyotes, antelope, deer, and one elk with the 6mm Remington. I started with a Remington Model 600 that my father purchased and gave to me when I was old enough to hunt. It was a great little rifle. Currently is belongs to my son Jeffrey as does a Ruger MK II in 6mm Remington. He took his first elk with that rifle with one shot at 350 yards. A really large cow only went about 20 yards before she dropped after he hit her right behind the shoulder.
My own personal 6mm Remington right now is a Ruger #1B with the 26" barrel. What a great rifle and as others have said, it is nice to be able to seat those bullets out there where they need to be which is hard to do in a short action. I have found that the Ruger MK II & Hawkeye action and the Winchester Model 70 both have actions long enough that you don't have to seat the 100 gr. bullets so deep that you give up some powder capacity.
6mm Remington is a great choice!
David
My own personal 6mm Remington right now is a Ruger #1B with the 26" barrel. What a great rifle and as others have said, it is nice to be able to seat those bullets out there where they need to be which is hard to do in a short action. I have found that the Ruger MK II & Hawkeye action and the Winchester Model 70 both have actions long enough that you don't have to seat the 100 gr. bullets so deep that you give up some powder capacity.
6mm Remington is a great choice!
David
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
I really wish ;apua would make a few more cartridges like .218 bee, hornet.6mm rem etc. Especially 6mm rem and the bee.
CJ6
Silver $$ Contributor
I'd always hoped Lapua would make the 6.5x57 Mauser case...It'd be so easy to do the rest (257 Rob.,6 mm Rem., 7x57 Mau even the 8x57)
For simplistics Id whip up a .243.
I shoot a lot of coyotes and IMO have yet to see a need for a 243 on coyotes, even though callers use it for them.
If I just had 1 rifle thought that's what Id be shooting. I do have a .243 but its regulated to a backup gun if that.
There are other 6mms that run w/243 speeds and use 10+ gr less powder.
I shoot a lot of coyotes and IMO have yet to see a need for a 243 on coyotes, even though callers use it for them.
If I just had 1 rifle thought that's what Id be shooting. I do have a .243 but its regulated to a backup gun if that.
There are other 6mms that run w/243 speeds and use 10+ gr less powder.
Yes yes! Lapau makes great brass as does Norma. I believe Norma is making the brass for Nosler and that is really good stuff too. Can't hurt to send e-mails to these folks and try and get them on board! I do!
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