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6mm RAT powders for NRA HP

ctrickett said:
Just got some 8208 in white jugs, the guy got out of shooting and had this from a few years ago. Does anyone know if this is early 8208, and what could be expected as it compares to current 8208. I have been happy shooting my RAT with 8208.

I believe the old 8208 is a different product formulation than the new product with the XBR added. A long-range shooter friend of mine bought what he called some 8208 "pull-down" stuff last year; I can't fathom how that could possibly be the new stuff.... I haven't seen or spoken with him since last mid-summer either so no opportunity to enquire.

I'd go slow in testing in any event until you know the condition and character of that white jug stuff.
 
Getting back on track here.

My shootin Partner ( Doug) tested some 105gr Hybrids in the 6mmFat RAT this past weekend. Three powders tested where Varget, Reloader 15 and Reloader 17. all with CC450 Alaxander cases, and all .020 off the lands.
Prmr Pwdr GR rnds VLCTY ES SD GRP
Berger 105HYB AA CCI 450 RL-17 31.6 5 2745fps 30 12 0.509
Berger 105HYB AA CCI 450 RL-17 31.9 5 2743fps 19 7 0.272 Also .200 Vertical

Berger 105HYB AA CCI 450 RL-15 29.7 5 2778fps 18 7 0.650 " HOT" .200 vertical

Berger 105HYB AA CCI 450 Varget 29.7 5 2796fps 26 10 0.326 "WARM Caution"

This is out of a 26" barrel on a Gas Gun.
Something inbetween R15 and R17 would be nice to test. Also maybe moving the bullets a little closer to the lands may prove profitable as well.
 
Well, I think you are going to slow on powder choices. Some have had reasonable results with RL-17 in the 6BR, but your talking about a case that has about 2+ grs. more capacity than the RAT or FAT RAT. Powders that work with heavy bullets in the 6BR should be a good choice. If you want to try something between RL15 and FL17, maybe try N-150, MR2000 would be worth a try also. Normal choices in the 6BR are H4895 and it's hard to beat, RL15, along with as you tested, Varget and you have enough case capacity that the Varget shift shouldn't be a problem having enough capacity. Nate and others really like 8208XBR and as said before, I am having good luck with AR-Comp, about 2800 fps with a 105-108 appears to be about the sweet spot to be easy on the brass and primer pockets. The current lot of Varget I have, as said before is slow, almost 50 fps slower in my 6 WOA than the previous lot and I could only get about 2680 fps with the new lot before running out of case. That load still shot just as many 600 cleans and 199s with a good Xcount (for me) as the previous higher velocity lot of Varget. My point is, if you can get to 2800 easily and be easy on the brass, I think you're in good territory. I mainly shoot the RAT because I can get to at least 2750 fps without being on the edge. Being able to do 2800ish, is just a bonus along with the better brass. I have no problem shooting the WOA with it's little lower velocity because that rifle is just a hammer, the RAT is getting there and hopefully will shot the velocity I want easier. Dave
 
Dave
You pretty much said it. If the accuracy is there and the velocity is close... thats good enough. When I can pull out 1/4 MOA groups out of R17 Id say thats pretty good. Of course it will have to be tested on the full Length course first. If it stays this good for 22 rounds I will be very happy with that speed. My barrel seems to be a little slower than most, It being a 26" to alot of guys 28" will show a slight decrease so I expect that.
So why did we test R17? Ran it through Quick Load and it popped up as a good candidate. Doug had some on his shelf so He Tried it. Simple as that. I dont think we would have gave it a second thought otherwise.
Dave for some reason this Barrel likes the slower powders. Lots of tests with XBR8208, AR comp, Varget, R15. Only one load got close to 1/2MOA with XBR8208. Just going where this barrel tells me to go.

Still searching for a good 300 yard load. The Hornady 87gr BTHP is a good Fireform load for this rifle and Im sure would work just fine for 300 yards but Im still hoping for a higher BC bullet for 300 yards. You know..for when they take five minutes between your first String of Rapid fire to your second string at CampPerry.

Hope all is well
Russ T
 
I hear that! Have you tried the 95SMK, or the new Hornady 105 BTHP? I have had good luck with those also. By the way, RL17 is the powder for the straight 284 Win. It is my powder of choice in that rifle for hunting. Also, I have seen some good results by a few others using it in the 6BR, I am just not sure how clean it is after 66 or 88 rounds. If you have access to N150 I would give it a try, that powder at times for me has been silly accurate! dave
 
Interesting the comments on RL17. I'd thought it too slow for consideration... may unscrew the cap on my bottle once the weather improves.

29.5 grains to start behind a 105VLD off the lands sound about right?

May try N150 & 550 too; 8208XBR was "good enough" at the start; this year plan more use of 6HAGAR (N140 short-line, RL15 for 600) so my 6RAT (original chamber for the time being) will see more thorough wring-out.
 
Steve; this thread may be off interest to you on RL17 and the 6BR, http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3765661.msg35955359.html#msg35955359.

Also, I don't have my data at work, but when I get home, I can look up what my load data is for the 6WOA and N150, should give you a starting point, Dave
 
Steve
Not much for pressure signs at 31gr R17 with the bigger Neck on the Fat Rat. The next test is going to be IMR 4007SSC I believe.
Intresting that I ran my two 600 yard loads through JBM calculator and there was only 1/2" gain for the hybrid over the VLD. I think Ill save those Hybrids for Long Range out of the 6 Super LR.

Hope all is well
Russ T
 
What is the neck diameter on the fat rat? I understand that the only difference between the rat and the fat rat is neck size, right?

Thanks,
JS
 
It's a new barrel, but with the old one (near the end of its life) a fired case wouldn't slide back over another bullet. I imagine that would explain a good bit of the early pressure I was seeing. It'll be nice to see what the new one can do--better release of the bullet plus 2" more barrel will probably be a very good thing.
 
Matt, some time I want to try MR-2000, it does seem to be able to generate a little higher velocity than AR-Comp. A problem I might have is I shoot in Phoenix, and temp stability here is important, although you really do have to adjust some for all powders here for the different temps. Regardless of powder shooting at 35-40 degrees on the low side in the winter, and 120+ degrees on the high side for summer can cause issues when you are right on the edge in the winter. I usually work my loads up in the summer and then adjust for the winter as, or if needed. I do know that AR-Comp is proving to be very accurate and test I've seen show good temp stability, but we have to adjust for Varget here also, so I'm sure some adjustment will be necessary this summer for AR-Comp. I did see one guys test for MR-2000 showing .85 fps increase per degree of temp. increase up to allegedly 160 degrees.

On your port pressure issue, without a smaller or farther further port, you probably will have to go to a little faster powder, AA2520 may be fine and H4895 or Varget as you know, but AR-comp may work also. If you didn't have so many rounds on the barrel you could just sleeve the port, but I would say it is not worth it financially. I have found the CWS to help some in the past, but never enough when a powder is ripping the rims of a case. Maybe an adjustable gas port? Dave

Like I said before, this last lot of Varget is a problem in my 6WOA because I do not have enough case capacity to get my usual velocities with it. AR-Comp solved that issue in the 6WOA, and seems perfect in the 6 RAT, I just need some time to try it in the 6BR. Dave
 
Dave,

What kind of velocity increase did you get in the 6WOA and the rat as a result of using the AR Comp? I have some chronograph results on my website that show different results from a similar cartridge.

JS
 
Well, with the 6WOA, my main objective was to get back to the velocities I used to get with some previous lots of Varget. The current lot I have is 50 fps slower with the same charge behind a 107SMK. I use to get about 2720ish fps in the 6WOA but was only geting about 2670-2680 fps with the current lot of Varget with the same charge (27.1 grs. of Varget). This wouldn't be a real problem, but I do not have enough room in the case to fit enough of the current lot of Varget to get back to my old velocity, I need to be able to fit 27.5 grs and can't ( I can with SSA brass, but that brass just doesn't cut it). With 26.6 grains of AR-Comp, Wolf LR primers in R-P brass, I am getting an average of 2716 fps, ES-12, SD-6. I could probably increase that velocity some, but my objective was to get to my old velocity and I achieved that without having a super compressed load. I dropped the charge to 26.5 grs. of AR-Comp, merely because my powder measure throws that charge and I am getting an average velocity of 2710 fps, ES-23, SD-8, but shot an honest 1/4" 5 shot group with this charge. 2000-MR would probably give more velocity, and somewhere down the road I may try it, but I'm concentraiting on the RAT right now trying to decide on the load and powder for it.

With the 6 RAT,
29 grs. of this slow lot of Varget gives me 2763 fps, ES-46, SD-18, with Wolf SRM primers in AA Lapua brass and maybe just under 1/2" 5 shot groups.

29.5 grs. of Varget gives 2807 fps, ES-17, SD-6, and also just under 1/2" groups. This is right on the edge for me and 29.2 grs. I think is a better load pressure wise.

28 grs. of H4895 gives me about 2748 fps, ES-20, SD-7 and also right at 1/2" groups.

And, AR-Comp, 28.4 grs. WSRM primer, AA brass, average of 2821 fps, ES-11, SD-4, less than 1/2" groups, close to 3/8" group.

I did not do a huge amount of test loads, I just wanted to see what some different powders would do and then I just started shooting matches as the real test.

I am currently shooting 28.1-28.2 grs of AR-Comp because I am trying to see how the brass holds at that level. I kind of pushed the pressure on some of the brass working up loads with different powders and some of the primer pockets are a little loose on my 600 yd brass. I will try and shoot a prone match in the next few weeks to see how some of the other brass does that has real tight pockets to see how the pressure is at this level then maybe try it again at 28.4 grs. I am just shooting the same powder charge of AR-Comp behind my short line lines with Hornady 87 BTHP's and they shoot great, I haven't even chrono'd them to see what they are doing, but really don't care. My goal was to shoot 107s at around 2800 and be easy on the brass with accuracy, and I think I am accomplishing that. I am sure 2000-MR would increase my velocity and again, want to work that up some time, but right now I'm just trying to get use to the new upper, cartridge, and Warner rear sight clicks after shooting an RPA for so long. I have also turned the necks on my 600 yd. brass to see what that may or may not accomplish.

My RAT is a 27" Krieger, and the upper is from Holliger, with the 2 1/4" handguard. I have only shot it in 2 matches across the course and no prone matches yet. I have only manage a 195, and 196 in slow prone with it so far, which is a tad below my usual average of about 197, but I think that will come back shortly, I just need a few more matches to get everything settled in. Not to mention that I'm just finally starting to get a reasonable offhand back, but that's another story! Dave

PS: I'm sure the 28.4 grs of AR-Comp is fine, and probably even a little more, but I want to see what happens at my current level first before pushing it back up with the 107s.
 
One other powder to try is possibly Leverevolution, Its about the right burn rate and I forget who, but I had heard a report that it had potential, Dave
 

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