6mm BR Norma H-4350

[urbanrifleman]

Wildcatter, when those primers blank, that little piece of metal goes somewhere. I just got through dealing with a bolt issue where the "blanks" were decreasing the firing pin fall.

Maybe time to go on the "hunt" for those blanks, as they are in the action, trigger group, or bolt body..

Me too.

 

[wildcatter]

Well and set up up with ther flags and chronograph and 40 rounds of new brass preped and ready to fireform with that 108 Elite Hunter bullet backed with 33.7 34.0 and 34.2 grains of H-4350, and Federal 205M primers. It was supposed to be a slightly windy day but steady, this morning I thought might beat the 15 to 20 mph winds mid morning, but that didn't happen.

So I started off with the new brass at 200 yards, with 4 wind flags scattered out and all running consistent out to 150 yards. would have liked to seen better but .680" to just under 1" wasn't bad for 6 5 shot groups. I did have 2 that went about 1.25" and those were both the 33.7 grain loads, and both were fired from clean barrels, all in all pretty happy for first firings at 200. Like the 34.0 grain load with Federal 205's including a fowling shot


But I did have two sets ready of the 95 grain Bibb bullet to test at 300 yards, 5 @34.5 grains, and 5 @ 34.7 grains. With the wind not laying down after sunup and starting to pickup still staying steady out of the North with my line of fire to the east, I decided I had no choice but to test this thing and see if the load would work for a 600 yard match this weekend I intended to attend.

So taking my time and firing the first group with a well fouled barrel from the second round of 108 grouping at 200 yards I got after it. One thing was for sure, this little 6BR Norma in the little Axis with it's 2.5 lbs trigger will shoot! And it likes the H4350, but likes em warm!! no record breaker at just under 11/16, but back home with the mic's and magnifier a generous .685" 300 yard 5 shot group with 34.7 grains, I will be taking this load with me this weekend!! It not only likes them warm, but defiantly prefers the CCI450 primers over the Federal 205M primers.


But before I finished, and the wind not dying down, after walking the scope to the 300 yard group for a zero and using one of the 5 remaining loads @ 34.5 grains with the CCI450's to assure it was zero'd, I was 21 1/8th min clicks from my original 100 yard zero. so dialing it back to zero I shot the remaining 4 loads into this group holding the big Golden Eagles dot on the 6 oclock mark of the center bull. This will be my primary load for this new rifle! But not my last 6BR load with H-4350 It has not failed to shoot under .250" MOA even in the steady wind with this 4 shot grouping under .160".

 

[Albany Mountain]

Well and set up up with ther flags and chronograph and 40 rounds of new brass preped and ready to fireform with that 109 Elite Hunter bullet backed with 33.7 34.0 and 34.2 grains of H-4350, and Federal 205M primers. It was supposed to be a slightly windy day but steady, this morning I thought might beat the 15 to 20 mph winds mid morning, but that didn't happen.

So I started off with the new brass at 200 yards, with 4 wind flags scattered out and all running consistent out to 150 yards. would have liked to seen better but .680" to just under 1" wasn't bad for 6 5 shot groups. I did have 2 that went about 1.25" and those were both the 33.7 grain loads, and both were fired from clean barrels, all in all pretty happy for first firings at 200. Like the 34.0 grain load with Federal 205's including a fowling shot
View attachment 1340919

But I did have two sets ready of the 95 grain Bibb bullet to test at 300 yards, 5 @34.5 grains, and 5 @ 34.7 grains. With the wind not laying down after sunup and starting to pickup still staying steady out of the North with my line of fire to the east, I decided I had no choice but to test this thing and see if the load would work for a 600 yard match this weekend I intended to attend.

So taking my time and firing the first group with a well fouled barrel from the second round of 108 grouping at 200 yards I got after it. One thing was for sure, this little 6BR Norma in the little Axis with it's 2.5 lbs trigger will shoot! And it likes the H4350, but likes em warm!! no record breaker at just under 11/16, but back home with the mic's and magnifier a generous .685" 300 yard 5 shot group with 34.7 grains, I will be taking this load with me this weekend!! It not only likes them warm, but defiantly prefers the CCI450 primers over the Federal 205M primers.
View attachment 1340917

But before I finished, and the wind not dying down, after walking the scope to the 300 yard group for a zero and using one of the 5 remaining loads @ 34.5 grains with the CCI450's to assure it was zero'd, I was 21 1/8th min clicks from my original 100 yard zero. so dialing it back to zero I shot the remaining 4 loads into this group holding the big Golden Eagles dot on the 6 oclock mark of the center bull. This will be my primary load for this new rifle! But not my last 6BR load with H-4350 It has not failed to shoot under .250" MOA even in the steady wind with this 4 shot grouping under .160".
View attachment 1340920

I'm assuming this is a 6BRA?

 

[Bc'z]

I'm assuming this is a 6BRA?

Straight 6 I believe

 

[wildcatter]

I'm assuming this is a 6BRA?

Just what it says, no assuming,,, 6BR Norma. No BRA, BRX, Dasher< nothing,, simple 6mm BR Norma for those willing to take the time to hand feed the powder, I think they would have a Dasher Beater, or any other improved 6BR cartridge!!

I've shot that 95 grain bullet load 4 times at 100 yards and just once at 300, never as big as .25 moa. ever and 4 of those were 5 shot groups, just wish the one above at 100 yards I would have had a fifth just to see if I could have kept that .160" 4 shot group from opening up???

If was as good at reading my conditions as those guy's winning with the other jerked over 6BR cases and improved versions,,, (debatable) I'm pretty sure with this bullet and H-4350 I'd be watch'n a bunch of ask why are we fooling with all this work making this brass, if I was as good at reading my conditions as they are,, hell maybe I'm selling myself short,,, ( but I tend to believe in reality)!

I'm sure with Premium bullets in 103 to 106 weights, this powder will do just as good. I'm just gonna shoot what I got, and face reality,,,, I just ain't as good but with the heavier bullets maybe a little more speed loss? But with a 12 fps spread, and a SD of 5 with 3057 fps out of the standard 6BR Norma case from a trued and timed Savage Axis action on a Krieger 4 groove .036" 1-8 twist HV barrel at 26" with a 2.5# trigger, trust me, it will shoot better than I am capable of squeezing out of this rigg!

But don't read into this post anything I ain't said, IT IS WHAT IT SAY's!

 

[wildcatter]

I believe I understand what you mean now. Anyone interested in looking up 4350 for 6bra just cant find do a an easy search and find data for it. I guess thers no published data.
I actually stubled on it outta curiosity. Iv shot a pound of imr4350 and h4350 with 90s and 108s. at 100 and 311 yards.
h4350 with the
108s at 29g was 2750 plus or minus
I finished at 30.6 2840
Im using a caldwell chronoghraph so Im not sure how accurate it is.
For ten shots at 30.5 the spread was 20fps
Hope this helps

I think those are probably pretty close, but anymore the speed aint what I'm chasing,, the consistency in the load is my main concern! we are punching paper, not trying to drop big game in it's track's. But would probably do that well enough with the ability to place shots where it counts with this accuracy?

I would keep going and look for more consistency in extreme spread, as well as accuracy, it is what I found when working up my load at least.

I also shot some of these in my 10 twist 6BR Norma with a 23.5" barrel, and got a tad faster results. Don't know how much the lower 1-10 twist had to do with it over the 1-8 of this gun, but I won't go over 26" with the BR case even with this slower powder. I just don't think there is anything to gain doing that?

Keep us informed Treece, and good luck!

 

[urbanrifleman]

I think those are probably pretty close, but anymore the speed aint what I'm chasing,, the consistency in the load is my main concern! we are punching paper, not trying to drop big game in it's track's. But would probably do that well enough with the ability to place shots where it counts with this accuracy?

I would keep going and look for more consistency in extreme spread, as well as accuracy, it is what I found when working up my load at least.

I also shot some of these in my 10 twist 6BR Norma with a 23.5" barrel, and got a tad faster results. Don't know how much the lower 1-10 twist had to do with it over the 1-8 of this gun, but I won't go over 26" with the BR case even with this slower powder. I just don't think there is anything to gain doing that?

Keep us informed Treece, and good luck!

Try some R16 and report back.

Very cool stuff.

 

[wildcatter]

Try some R16 and report back.

Very cool stuff.

I refuse to try anything else in this barrel, show me consistent groups under .2ths never over .25ths, and 3050 fps with these weight bullets with SD's hovering around 6, and might entertain wasting more time in this particular gun,,, but I doubt it. I think I'll just wear this barrel out with the keg of powder and 2000 bullets I have on the shelf, I think this wheel is as round as it will get!!!

Remember, I'm not a professional shooter!
It is Savage Axis, not a Panda or Batt!
It has 2.5# trigger at best!

Sometimes you have to quit believing what you read, and except reality!!! Like the weekends, at 67 work has the same affect me as them weekends!


Over the years I have learned to quit chasing my own azz!~ THIS IS AGAIN A THREAD FOR H-4350! Get yerself a jerked over factory action and wear yerself out, I'll look for you thread,,,,

 

[CaptainMal]

Years ago SavageDasher got pitched from this forum for good. He touted 36 - 36.5 gr of H4350 in Dasher with 105+- gr. bullets. He had velocities in the 3,500 - 3,100fps range and superb accuracy with great barrel life.

Well the "secret" never got out and he got tossed. He uses - I say uses because he still does - a 3 FT drop tube to load the powder. Each granule has to go in the same or it is way , way overfilled.

Never have I see or tried this and showed any kind of pressure signs. Have seen bullets pushed out by the powder just sitting there because I tried to cheat the drop tube.

Now for a regular 6 BR it would be less powder but you will still need the long drop tube. I have no clue just what they might be as rarely does anyone I know bother with a straight 6 BR when the BRA and Dasher are so much better if you want velocity with accuracy.

If you experiment with this drop tube idea do NOT repeat you heard if from me. Work with a full case and normal seating before starting the drop tube idea. It is all on you.

 

[wildcatter]

Years ago SavageDasher got pitched from this forum for good. He touted 36 - 36.5 gr of H4350 in Dasher with 105+- gr. bullets. He had velocities in the 3,500 - 3,100fps range and superb accuracy with great barrel life.

Well the "secret" never got out and he got tossed. He uses - I say uses because he still does - a 3 FT drop tube to load the powder. Each granule has to go in the same or it is way , way overfilled.

Never have I see or tried this and showed any kind of pressure signs. Have seen bullets pushed out by the powder just sitting there because I tried to cheat the drop tube.

Now for a regular 6 BR it would be less powder but you will still need the long drop tube. I have no clue just what they might be as rarely does anyone I know bother with a straight 6 BR when the BRA and Dasher are so much better if you want velocity with accuracy.

If you experiment with this drop tube idea do NOT repeat you heard if from me. Work with a full case and normal seating before starting the drop tube idea. It is all on you.

This is wrong!! The drop tube will not give you the best loading density,, fact I have proven this, and 3' drop tube will not allow as much powder as possible!! But for anyone that would believe any Dasher with any loaded 105 was capable of 2500 fps shows how gulible some people can be!!! Even a novice should be educated enough to know that is not possible with any powder in that size case!! FACT! been there done that!!

But while making this a safe loading post, anyone who uses Dasher brass like Peterson, and thinks it will give velocities that Lapua will, IT WON"T!! Not SAELY!! I am going to post a thread on this flesy as well, but not here!!

If you want the most density as you can get with any powder, you need to to trickle it in the case, slowly swirling it around the funnel as it slowly is shaken into the edge of the funnel! I have proven this to some very successful shooters with more loading experience than me!!

If you do as you read, and only apply what you are told, you may be missing a lot of opportunity others will never share simply because they do as they are told or read. Fred Sinclair taught me years ago to never be afraid to try something others haven't.

Please don't trust me, try it! It requires a steady hand slowly shaking very small amounts at a time to get the density I am, a 5'drop tube will not do any more for you than a 3' when it is dumped at once.

I also have not told anyone to just dump X amount and shoot it, but be responsible and start low and work up, like you should even if you have published data,,,, By the way, these loads would not exist if we had to load only by published data!!! Show me one manual with H or IMR 4350 data for a 6BR Norma cartridge,,,, but it would be very misleading to say it can't be used with safe responsible loading practices!!

Like so much in the shooting world, most of anything you find from a cartridge to load data for any cartridge cam from shooters doing it on their own! The best data and cartridges we have today came from Bench Rest shooters that established anything from the cartridge to the loads on their own!! No one can force responsible shooting to anyone, we can only offer experience, and you sir are offering what you read,, not what you have done!!~

I am offering what I have proven in real life, and warning where not to go, and suggesting starting lower! Just like correcting the poster that suggested they were told you can't get to much H4350 in a case,,,, Which I pointed out is the wrong idea to give anyone, lack of responsible loading practice can make anything DANGEROUS!

 

[NC/Br Shooter]

Try some R16 and report back.

Very cool stuff.

its been on my mind. I was able to find 2 lbs of 4350 yesterday. So Ill be loading and shooting in the next few weeks. Weird thing about reloading and the shooting sports. When I found out about Reloader 15. I could hardly find it. Same thing with AR comp.
Im shooting 4350, Ar comp, and want to find RL16, and its nowhere around here, at the moment.

 

[762willdo]

But what about temp sensitivity?????

 

[wildcatter]

It is the times,, but you will. I suggest when you do, buy your primers in case lots, reduces any difference in different lots of the same primer. Same with powder,, keep it the exact same if your chasing exact results! This goes for brass as well. most custom chambers will give 100 rounds more than enough loadings to wear a barrel out, this goes for primers and powder as well, I figure 2000 rounds for competitive barrel life (never owned a 30BR but would make an exception if i did), and after 2000 rounds, I'm not starting another year hoping it wont give out in the middle of a season.

I recommend this even to a varmint hunter. don't invite a change mid barrel after doing all the work to get what you are after,,, CONSISTENCY!

 

[wildcatter]

But what about temp sensitivity?????

The new Extreme powders are among the most temperature stable powders we have available,, another good reason living in NW Ohio and shooting around the country I made this attempt! But as always, don't work a max load in 30* weather and take it for granted it will be safe in 90or 100 degree weather,,, Responsible loading is no accidents, or taking chances!

 

[NC/Br Shooter]

I just about didnt post these photos.
Left is 6 shots 30.6g h4350 108berger 6bra 8t
right picture is 90g berger 33.1imr 4350 6bra 8t
Groups shot with two different Barrels, but both barrels came from same place.
Both barrels are .104 freebore.
I had shot and posted some pics from 300 yard groups but none at 100. These are ranged actually at 103 but anyway.

 

[762willdo]

The new Extreme powders are among the most temperature stable powders we have available,, another good reason living in NW Ohio and shooting around the country I made this attempt! But as always, don't work a max load in 30* weather and take it for granted it will be safe in 90or 100 degree weather,,, Responsible loading is no accidents, or taking chances!

Since Varget is in the extreme line up does that mean they have made it even mor temp insensitiv?

 

[wildcatter]

Since Varget is in the extreme line up does that mean they have made it even mor temp insensitiv?

The reason they have an extreme lineup now is it is all less temp sensitive than the older Non-Extreme line of powders! My issue with Varget is it's burn temps, I still use it, but it won't perform as well the H-4350 with my loads, without running into excessive pressure! This why I prefer the H-4350.

I have a 6x47 Lapua build in the shop as I speak, my first load testing will be with H-4831sc Extreme, another powder we don't see others using, and am sure you won't find data for, but to me with the capacity to run 43.0 grains when most are using 38 grains of H-4350, why wouldn't a powder capable of more load density, slower burning, and in the 27" barrel it's being chambered in, more speed without more pressure is what I am expecting.

I will just have to see if the 105's like being pushed faster, if not I will drop down to H-4350 and see what it does there, but why not try for the performance gain first. If I didn't want more performance,, I'd stick with a 26" 6BR Norma.

 

[Bill Norris]

Since Varget is in the extreme line up does that mean they have made it even mor temp insensitiv?

According to Hodgdon I believe so.

 

[NC/Br Shooter]

Today marks the very first time I have seen , (now bought) my very first 8lb jug of H4350. Brand new! I thought H4350 and Varget in 8lb jugs where impossible to come by for folks llike myself. Really, only people I thought could buy these jugs where shooting teams and certain others. Like I had posted previously, I got a barrel that loves this stuff.
Anyway, Now, this week Ill be able to post some numbers from my radar.

 

[Bill Norris]

Today marks the very first time I have seen , (now bought) my very first 8lb jug of H4350. Brand new! I thought H4350 and Varget in 8lb jugs where impossible to come by for folks llike myself. Really, only people I thought could buy these jugs where shooting teams and certain others. Like I had posted previously, I got a barrel that loves this stuff.
Anyway, Now, this week Ill be able to post some numbers from my radar.

Great news Bro.