6mm arc bolt gun?

[Laurie]

Nobody is mentioning simply resizing and trimming 6.5 Grendel brass to 6ARC. I have seen mentions on the forum of neck-expanding 220 Russian and reforming using the false shoulder method of headspacing.

Is this because a simple reforming of Grendel cases doesn't work, or because quality Grendel brass is also currently unobtainable in the USA?

 

[kevad68]

I actually keep coming back to seeing more value in the bolt gun proposition of the cartridge vs the AR side. Mostly to do with barrel life. Top PRS guys like Heckler & Colon are running their 6BR 108's ~ 2,825 - 2,850'ish spectacularly. I think a lot of that lower than max. velocity they're choosing has to do with constantly changing out barrels w/2,500 round barrel life. And yep, I get everyone saying barrels are a "consumable", but the first 200+ on them for load development and break-in is worth something of my time right now. Everything I've seen says 6 ARC mirrors 6BR closely in 28" barrels (maybe with velocity to spare when I get done with the reloads) with the advantage of factory loads being available just in case I don't have time to reload. Brownell's did have 6MM ARC Black in stock for awhile for a good price, so I picked up several hundred just for the practice rounds and the brass. Originally, a few weeks ago, I purchased the Sportsmans Warehouse Savage Switchback 110 to play with, but not a few days after getting it home and thinking about the limitations of the 22" barrel I realized I wanted to go "all in" on the caliber. Mostly cause I wanted a pair of father/son PRS rifles with swappable barrel capability down the road. We currently run 6Creeds and they're at about the end of their barrel life based on accuracy and speed variances (we have about 1,600 on them now) I detected at the last match. So I ordered a pair of TL3's, 28" barrels, and found an almost new MDT Chassis for myself (still looking for one for my son with some kind of nice/funky cerakote paint job on it). If I get everything in time and get it proven out we'll probably run them at the Guardian Match in May up at MTC.

 

[Laurie]

We currently run 6Creeds and they're at about the end of their barrel life based on accuracy and speed variances (we have about 1,600 on them now) I detected at the last match.

Um, that's a bit on the short side for me these days. In the UK rebarreling with a decent stainless match barrel is £1,000 or more, ie $1320 US at the official rate of exchange. My first 6BR match barrel lasted ~3,000 rounds and would still have been general/varmint shooting capable, but I saw a steady increase in group size in 600 yard BR once I'd passed 1,500 rounds with 105s at less than 2,800 fps from 30-inches, so it's not too different it seems.

 

[screaminweasil]

Got my 110 Tactical 6mm ARC yesterday afternoon. I'm not a savage fan...........been there done that. However, they really knocked it out of the park with the "Accustock".

I cleaned it last night, spent an hour cycling the bolt and dry firing occassionally. I probably cycled it a thousand times easily. Took care to clean off the bolt and re-apply grease to the lugs, etc.....every few hundred cycles.

Smoothed right up. Accutrigger out of the box set at 2.25Lbs and consistent. Perfect for a truck gun.

Threw an Athlon Ares ETR 3-18x50 on it in Hawkins precision low rings.

Shot 60 rounds threw it this morning. One box of 108 Eld match factory. Shot mostly around .750" three shot groups at 100 yards to begin with. Got into my 2nd box.........Factory Hornady Black 105 HPBT..........same groups. Most .750" Moved from a crappy wobbly wooden bench to concrete.............had to drive across the road to the 300 yard range for this. The old wooden bench I was using initially has gotten a bit to wobbly over the last few years......needs a rebuild.

Groups at the concrete bench were 5/8 and .750"

Then, I put on a muzzle brake. Not sure if the brake increased the accuracy, or if a combo of having 40 rounds through the new barrel at this point did. But, here are the last groups out of the rifle, with muzzle brake attached. The brake is an "omni brake" from a Bergara 6.5

ALL GROUPS SHOT AT 100 YARDS

NO Cleaning.............Except for initial cleanout of factory chamber and barrel from the test firing at Savage.

She's broken in and ready for reloads.

Savage knocked it out with this little rifle.

Accustock bedding.........

I used somebody elses leftover targets at the 300 yard range................thus, the ripped up targets.

ALL GROUPS WERE SHOT AT 100 YARDS (not 300)

 

[screaminweasil]

Nice to see it likes 105gr HPBT Hornady's. I've got 5,000 of them (Same Lot #) designated for a 6mm ARC rifle. Looks like this one has it's name on them.

I've got a ton of Hogdon Lever' as well.............so I'm a happy camper. Sweet little rifle, sweet little round.

 

[Lkwebb]

Didn't know savage made a 6 arc... good to know...

 

[kevad68]

Got my 110 Tactical 6mm ARC yesterday afternoon. I'm not a savage fan...........been there done that. However, they really knocked it out of the park with the "Accustock".

I cleaned it last night, spent an hour cycling the bolt and dry firing occassionally. I probably cycled it a thousand times easily. Took care to clean off the bolt and re-apply grease to the lugs, etc.....every few hundred cycles.

Smoothed right up. Accutrigger out of the box set at 2.25Lbs and consistent. Perfect for a truck gun.

Threw an Athlon Ares ETR 3-18x50 on it in Hawkins precision low rings.

Shot 60 rounds threw it this morning. One box of 108 Eld match factory. Shot mostly around .750" three shot groups at 100 yards to begin with. Got into my 2nd box.........Factory Hornady Black 105 HPBT..........same groups. Most .750" Moved from a crappy wobbly wooden bench to concrete.............had to drive across the road to the 300 yard range for this. The old wooden bench I was using initially has gotten a bit to wobbly over the last few years......needs a rebuild.

Groups at the concrete bench were 5/8 and .750"

Then, I put on a muzzle brake. Not sure if the brake increased the accuracy, or if a combo of having 40 rounds through the new barrel at this point did. But, here are the last groups out of the rifle, with muzzle brake attached. The brake is an "omni brake" from a Bergara 6.5

ALL GROUPS SHOT AT 100 YARDS

NO Cleaning.............Except for initial cleanout of factory chamber and barrel from the test firing at Savage.

She's broken in and ready for reloads.

Savage knocked it out with this little rifle.

Accustock bedding.........

I used somebody elses leftover targets at the 300 yard range................thus, the ripped up targets.

ALL GROUPS WERE SHOT AT 100 YARDS (not 300)

Just curious, did you gather velocities with the shorter barrel?

 

[screaminweasil]

Just curious, did you gather velocities with the shorter barrel?

2520fps in 38deg

Factory loads are anemic for AR15 "pressures"

Should be around 2700 with a 105 and stiff charge of Leverevolution in the 18"

Guys are getting 2850-2900 in 26" barreled bolt guns

 

[SD guy]

Nobody is mentioning simply resizing and trimming 6.5 Grendel brass to 6ARC. I have seen mentions on the forum of neck-expanding 220 Russian and reforming using the false shoulder method of headspacing.

Is this because a simple reforming of Grendel cases doesn't work, or because quality Grendel brass is also currently unobtainable in the USA?

All of your mentioned alternate brass choices are very viable. I'm saying this based on personal experience. Thus far I have Lapua converted 220 Russian brass, Lapua 6.5 Grendel converted brass, & others have converted the other 6.5 Grendel brass as well.

BTW converting 6.5 Grendel brass is substantially less effort than converting 220 Russian. In our current political climate Converting 6.5mm Grendel brass may be more palatable as well I shoot 6.5 Grendel as well & initially preferred to avoid the potential confusion of having 6mm ARC & 6.5 Grendel around with the same headstamp.

If what I am hearing is true, in relatively short order we will have Starline 6mm ARC factory head stamp brass as a reloading choice as well.

 

[Laurie]

I'm saying this based on personal experience. Thus far I have Lapua converted 220 Russian brass, Lapua 6.5 Grendel converted brass, & others have converted the other 6.5 Grendel brass as well.

Thanks for that. I couldn't see why such a reforming operation from Grendel wouldn't work and going the other way from 220 Russian seemed more effort.

 

[5spd]

I picked up a ruger 6.5 grendel predator, bolt is sticky when chambering and that's due to the ar15 mag. The guide is pretty sharpy angle so short seated bullets hit the ramp or chamber entrance and you end up fingering it in line to chamber.
Accurate it is, bolt is smooth with no mag in the way.
There are 6mm arc barrels ready to spin on if one wanted to do barrel swaps and I may do that with mine.
I had a ar15 6mm arc I assembled and formed brass from 6.5 grendel, 7.62x39 with no issues, fairly easy.

 

[uncle fester]

Didn't know savage made a 6 arc... good to know...

They also offer the cartridge in it’s cheaper Axis II platform

 

[crowsnest2002]

Wouldnt mind having one of those axis 2 barrels at a decent price.

 

[bucweet]

Dont over look H4895 and Benchmark from Hodgdon and N540 for Speed.

I have 20" gas gun and get 2900 with 95 bergers and 540

 

[Minshooter]

Nobody is mentioning simply resizing and trimming 6.5 Grendel brass to 6ARC. I have seen mentions on the forum of neck-expanding 220 Russian and reforming using the false shoulder method of headspacing.

Is this because a simple reforming of Grendel cases doesn't work, or because quality Grendel brass is also currently unobtainable in the USA?

Have made a few hundred 6 ARC from 6.5 Grendel. Just a simple size with a Hornady 6 ARC FL size die,
with Imperial Sizing Wax, and a slight trim. Load and shoot. Have done this with Hornady and Lapua brass.
Excess lube plus sizing as fast as you can pull the lever can create wrinkles on the case shoulder.
A slow size seems to allow any excess lube to be squeezed out, and I almost never see any wrinkles.
(Very little Imperial Sizing Wax is needed, but even then, it sometimes can accumulate in the die).

Now, if anyone could just find a source for 6.5 PRC brass...

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass is excellent, as good as any brass made for any cartridge that I'm aware of. I'd definitely use it if you can find it, for a bolt gun. It holds up to pressure and firings way better than any of the cheaper stuff that I've found. Night and day better. The reduced pressures in a gas gun are not due to the brass. So if I was loading cheap ammo for a gas gun, I might opt for the cheaper brass and stay within the pressure limitations of the gun platform., around 50K PSI. Most any brass should hold up to that.

 

[Laurie]

The Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass is excellent, as good as any brass made for any cartridge that I'm aware of. I'd definitely use it if you can find it, for a bolt gun.

Fortunately, I've no problems getting Lapua Grendel brass here (the UK), and I live only 30 minutes drive away from our main Lapua components distributor. The way things are going I might be wise to stock up a bit though. (Right now I use these cases, but only in their original 6.5mm form. However, I fully intend to try the ARC in due course, so some extra might be in order.) As you say, they really are excellent quality, and you'd have to do something extraordinary to overload them.

 

[uncle fester]

Bought a Savage Switchback with 22 inch threaded medium heavy barrel. Took it out for some break in - create Hornady brass - using factory HPBT’s. Even with crappy plastic stock (I planned to replace the stock with MDT chassis when I bought rifle), it was a sub 3/4 rifle shooting from simple sandbags on bench.

Once the new stock arrives, I’ll really be able to test her out.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Got my 110 Tactical 6mm ARC yesterday afternoon. I'm not a savage fan...........been there done that. However, they really knocked it out of the park with the "Accustock".

I cleaned it last night, spent an hour cycling the bolt and dry firing occassionally. I probably cycled it a thousand times easily. Took care to clean off the bolt and re-apply grease to the lugs, etc.....every few hundred cycles.

Smoothed right up. Accutrigger out of the box set at 2.25Lbs and consistent. Perfect for a truck gun.

Threw an Athlon Ares ETR 3-18x50 on it in Hawkins precision low rings.

Shot 60 rounds threw it this morning. One box of 108 Eld match factory. Shot mostly around .750" three shot groups at 100 yards to begin with. Got into my 2nd box.........Factory Hornady Black 105 HPBT..........same groups. Most .750" Moved from a crappy wobbly wooden bench to concrete.............had to drive across the road to the 300 yard range for this. The old wooden bench I was using initially has gotten a bit to wobbly over the last few years......needs a rebuild.

Groups at the concrete bench were 5/8 and .750"

Then, I put on a muzzle brake. Not sure if the brake increased the accuracy, or if a combo of having 40 rounds through the new barrel at this point did. But, here are the last groups out of the rifle, with muzzle brake attached. The brake is an "omni brake" from a Bergara 6.5

ALL GROUPS SHOT AT 100 YARDS

NO Cleaning.............Except for initial cleanout of factory chamber and barrel from the test firing at Savage.

She's broken in and ready for reloads.

Savage knocked it out with this little rifle.

Accustock bedding.........

I used somebody elses leftover targets at the 300 yard range................thus, the ripped up targets.

ALL GROUPS WERE SHOT AT 100 YARDS (not 300)

That bedding block does look good compared to their old crappy plastic stocks!

 

[uncle fester]

Didn't know savage made a 6 arc... good to know...

If you want a longer barrel (24"), go to Sportsman's Warehouse and look at their very inexpensive ($550j Switchback model. The stock it comes with is complete garbage; however, the action and barrel are typical 110 quality.

I bought mine planning to drop it into a MDT XRS and love the results. I like the stock the Tactical has, but I wanted a longer barrel.

This afternoon, I was sending 87 grain V-Max bullets over 3,000 fps with Leverevolution powder. I wasn't even near Max gun bolt loads per Hornady.