Grandchildren are here I'll get to it tomorrow. I'm assuming you mean just the ballistics or do you want the pressures too?
6mm ARC availability
- Thread starter COLT45SA
- Start date
While the ARC has developed a following, it's very much similar to a ppc or 6 Grendel in performance. I mean..virtually identical! The three rounds are all virtually the same., with the ppc being smallest, the 6 Grendel the largest and the ARC pretty much in between, in a very small gap between designs. Tiny, relatively speaking, as I can't think of any or three rounds that are nearly so close to one another. The difference is simple...One has saami aproval but they've all been around for a while(minus the ARC), so there is no advantage of the ARC performance wise to any handloader. Add into that, the pressure limitations of factory ARC ammo, due to the platform(ar15) it's built around, and the differences are likely even smaller.
Now, as anyone that has experience with a ppc or 6 Grendel will testify to..they both excel at well above saami or ar15 pressure capabilities.
It is what it is..a cartridge that has been around, in many forms for a long time, that is better suited to a bolt action but was designed and marketed around a platform that holds it back. Sorry, but that's just the truth. Hornady is just trying to capitalize on what they call their own, but is far from it and for a platform that the exploits the weakness of the cartridge due to bolt thrust and inherent pressure limitations with it. Again, it just is what it is. In no way am I saying it's a bad cartridge, though. It can't be bad because it falls between two very good wildcats, but in a platform that holds it back and is surpassed in a bolt gun...all else equal.
A slimmer cartridge, with less bolt thrust might be the answer. But again, due to mag length constraints, the platform is the problem.
Reminds me of the racing world. Nothing wrong with a small block chevy but there is no replacement for displacement. That's all!
Now, as anyone that has experience with a ppc or 6 Grendel will testify to..they both excel at well above saami or ar15 pressure capabilities.
It is what it is..a cartridge that has been around, in many forms for a long time, that is better suited to a bolt action but was designed and marketed around a platform that holds it back. Sorry, but that's just the truth. Hornady is just trying to capitalize on what they call their own, but is far from it and for a platform that the exploits the weakness of the cartridge due to bolt thrust and inherent pressure limitations with it. Again, it just is what it is. In no way am I saying it's a bad cartridge, though. It can't be bad because it falls between two very good wildcats, but in a platform that holds it back and is surpassed in a bolt gun...all else equal.
A slimmer cartridge, with less bolt thrust might be the answer. But again, due to mag length constraints, the platform is the problem.
Reminds me of the racing world. Nothing wrong with a small block chevy but there is no replacement for displacement. That's all!
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SOME REAL LIFE head to head data. the mil say the 308 is an approved sniper round at 800 yards
so compare apples to apples not m80 to custom arc
Realistically, we shouldn't use what the military calls an "approved sniper round" either. At least not on this board, where frankly, a torso is NOT a difficult standard. Minute of torso means little n here. Just my 2 cents though. The military has their standards for their own reasons but in terms of accuracy from a plain old rifle like the most modern br equipment today, it's hard to make any comparison that favors military standards.
Here's a link to an article with ballistic comparisons, I'll dig up some more.
U.S. Military Adopts Hornady's New Cartridge: 6mm ARC - Guns and Ammo
Hornady's 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge (ARC) is the first time in history that the commercial announcement of a cartridge was preceded by adoption within the military. While Hornady has been extremely secretive about who adopted the cartridge, they can say that it is a "notable Department o
www.gunsandammo.com
Here's a link to a YouTube search, some of it marketing much of ot real world shooting.
Published bolt action reloading dats has the standard 100 grain SP from the ARC 200 FPS slower than the 243 with about 30% less powder.
Here's a Hornady chart.
6mm arc ballistic chart vs 7.62x51 - Bing
Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.
My AR has a 16" barrel however it dies match with Hornady 105 grain Hornady published data for a 16" barrel.
Stag arms has a video where they tested the 5.56 and 6MM ARC side by side simultaneously. Ac75 grain 5.56 and the 108 6MM, wind drift measured 60" for the 5.56, 20 " for the 6MM ARC.
Here's an chart that includes the M80.
7 62x51 Ballistics Drop chart - Bing
Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.
Here a video comparing the 6MM ARC to the 308.
308 vs 6mm arc - Search Videos
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For anyone that questions why it is lower psi, take a 5.56 bolt and set it by a Grendel bolt. Just like the 6.5 brother ran at 62000, the lugs can shear off long before you are ready for that to happen. Using book loads, I am getting 2900 with 87Vmax bullets, with a 22" barrel. The bolt gun factory data shows 3050 with a 87 Vmax and a 24" barrel, which is a hair under .243 book loads. It's getting 2850 with 108's and the bolt load data. There is a Screwtube channel, where the guy has over 4400 bolt loads at or over max, showing no fire cracking an minimal throat erosion, and It looks like the factory Savage barrel. I plan on screwing a barrel a Savage 12 and use the Lapua brass for it and Hornady for the gas gun. I have a 6CM and a .243 but neither will hold up to the rate of fire that the 6ARC can. I would compare the barrel heat of 10 rounds of the 6CM to probably 30-35 from the ARC and I have a lighter ARC barrel. Will it do anything a 6PPC won't do? Not much, unless you want to go the the LGS and buy one with a 7.5 twist barrel in the box. I look at it as a nice choice for PDogs when the wind is blowing in Wyoming, as if that ever happens!
The 6MM ARC AR15 M4E from Brownells comes with a 7.5 twist Ballistic Advantage barrel, in 16,18 and 20".
I went with it because it was 52,000 PSI, I wanted an auto loader that would be able to fire short bursts without throating the bore and take medium game. That requires low pressures.
I see it as a general use cartridge and rifle combination, drop it in the truck and go. I have a 6MM Remington and a 223 for varmints and while the ARC has special use for the military it has general purpose use for civilians, for varmints it falls above the 223 in range but not as useful range wise as a 22 250.
I’ve seen a bunch of 6 ARC ammo and brass for it my area, but I also only live 12 miles from Hornady.
Here's a 175 grain chart from Sierra.
www.sierrabullets.com
My ballistic calculator pops out for the 6MM ARC at 1,000 yards in a 90 degree 10 MPH wind with a 108 grain ELD at 2750 FPS. 1,000 yard drop 343.54 inches, wind drift 83.94". Comparing to drop of 391.66 and wind of 101.99 for the 308.
As I said I have a 16"barrel working gun and I've tested it out to 800 yards against the calculator and it's pretty much on.
Here's a guy who compares 6MM ARC, 6.5Grendal and 308.
www.bing.com
Here's and article from the NRA you might find interesting comparing 223, 6MM ARC and 308. Again the NRA used a 168 grain for the 308. From my experience I agree with a 165 to 170 max for a 308 in a carry rifle. The 308 just lacks case capacity for 30 caliber projectiles.
www.americanrifleman.org
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www.sierrabullets.com
My ballistic calculator pops out for the 6MM ARC at 1,000 yards in a 90 degree 10 MPH wind with a 108 grain ELD at 2750 FPS. 1,000 yard drop 343.54 inches, wind drift 83.94". Comparing to drop of 391.66 and wind of 101.99 for the 308.
As I said I have a 16"barrel working gun and I've tested it out to 800 yards against the calculator and it's pretty much on.
Here's a guy who compares 6MM ARC, 6.5Grendal and 308.
6mm arc ballistic chart - Search Videos
Here's and article from the NRA you might find interesting comparing 223, 6MM ARC and 308. Again the NRA used a 168 grain for the 308. From my experience I agree with a 165 to 170 max for a 308 in a carry rifle. The 308 just lacks case capacity for 30 caliber projectiles.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Preview: Hornady 6mm ARC
Hornady announced the launch of its new 6mm ARC cartridge in June 2020, giving AR-15 owners a new round that provides enhanced capabilities.
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its strange to have a gun person CLAIM that 308 lacks case capacity for 30 cal bullets....Here's and article from the NRA you might find interesting comparing 223, 6MM ARC and 308. Again the NRA used a 168 grain for the 308. From my experience I agree with a 165 to 170 max for a 308 in a carry rifle. The 308 just lacks case capacity for 30 caliber projectiles.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Preview: Hornady 6mm ARC
Hornady announced the launch of its new 6mm ARC cartridge in June 2020, giving AR-15 owners a new round that provides enhanced capabilities.
( with his personal limit being 170)
the us mil uses 175 smks design is 800 meters, but reality is hits past 1200 as a sniper rifle
i run 185's in one of my 24" 308's rigth at 1/4 moa at 300, about 1/2 moa at 600 not opportunities for 800 YET.
TYPICAL PR DEPARTMENTS picking and choosing lame data to support their new toy.
i am done here, bye
Why do you think the military moved to the 300 magnum, or other long range cartridges? My personal belief is that the 308 is the greatest cartridge we ever got that we didn't need. We already had the 300 Savage.
It was adopted by the military so produced by many companies. A shorter powder column than the 30 06 so accuracy was easier, it did 95% of what most hunters needed so it became popular. I had multiple 30 06's and 8MM Mausers so I had zero need for a 308.
Go back in time 50 years and take a 6MM ARC with a 24" barrel with you, I was there, give me 48 hours with it and I never would never choose any of the 1972 options available. Today considering all the options, there's no way to make the 7.62x51 a viable field long range rifle.
The reason the 308 looks the way it does - it was designed to feed reliably in automatic rifles and matching guns of the day. Thus, the shoulder design is what it is.
It was never intended to be a long range precision cartridge.
BINGO! The military wasted money with the program, they were bull headed and ignored the studies.
With that said they developed a very good civilian cartridge and a good special uses military cartridge. A civilian could live their entire life with the 308 and be well armed. However with the 7.62 x 51, the military failed in a major way at developing a general issue rifle/cartridge.
Brass may be scarce but 6MM ARC ammo is available at 5 different sources as I write this. I have hundreds of factory rounds and the same for properly head stamped once fired brass.
Your remark about paying Hornady is rather disingenuous, you have to pay someone, what does it matter who it is?
In the past I hunted with wildcats, I hand to ship ammo to the destination and confirm delivery to asssure I had it. Having a mass produced cartridge makes ammo more easily accessible.
Good for you! If one would ever want to buy ammo off of the shelf, "98% of shooters", or buy factory produced dies "IF" they reload, or buy an off the shelf barrel or rifle, and not send their rifle off for a custom rifle, then the 6ARC is the choice, 99.9+ % of buyers. The crap people bitch about boggles my mind. They all are made from the 7.62x39 parent case.
Even if you have a custom 6MM ARC or other factory chambered rifle built I've always found it useful to have factory ammo around to use for comparison.
Especially if you're loading for a low to mid pressure gas operated rifle like the 30 Carnine or 6MM ARC. Cycling, ejection angle, distance and repeatability, velocities compared to factory and published data are very important.
My point with Hornady is that they took a round that a substantial number of individuals worked with for several years to produce an effective round for the AR platform, bumped the shoulder back 0.030" and attempted to take credit for a new wonderful round.
CJ6
Silver $$ Contributor
YUP....The 6 Grinch, 6 Grendle have been around for a bit. But when they change 1 spec it's a whole new cartridge...
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