In relation to Comagutsa, I purchased 2 Kreiger barrels and tuned them the same time as Comagutsa at the same range, sometimes on the same day. BRA, same reamer, same gunsmith etc.. Shot 3 different powder lots and two different Bullets and both barrels shot exceptionally with my first barrel winning our state championships Light gun, Heavy Gun and Two Gun, also scored a 3rd place at a Nationals in Light Gun even though I felt the barrel had lost its tune a little after 1k rnds on Barrel. Both barrels tuned fast and second barrel has a reasonably wide tune window.. BRA for me is user friendly, atleast my first two barrels have been.
6BRA versus 6 Dasher @ 600 yards
- Thread starter jamesdmock
- Start date
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
Hate to ignore this thread as some might jump all over the understanding of my experiences. So, guess they are gonna jump.
Thought i was getting pretty good at 600 yards with my multiple Dashers. Then the BRA craze came a few years ago. Man I spent thousands and jumped on that BRA bandwagon. Had visions of being another Tom Mousel or Bart Seuter. Ended up being just a dumb Pollock as always.
Dashers and Varget - a match made in Heaven. Only now it had to be H4895 with the BRA. Me and that powder never got along. Velocities over 3,000 fps were easy with the BRA. To get accuracy I played and still do, around 2,960 fps using 105-105 gr. bullets. My Dashers using Varget shot and still shoot well at 3,020 - 3,030 fps. Varget and my BRA always seemed to be at odds.
Test, test, test with every BRA combination I could find. Sometimes they did shoot small - once. Next time, awful. Wore out one barrel, then another, then got pissed at more barrels and still playing with more on two different actions. One was formerly a Dasher and the other a "million-dollar" build for BRA. Never have they been consistent like my Dashers.
Got into the custom bullet craze and blew more money. All the talk of great shooting with BRA had me stoked to spend more money and do more testing. Still shot like the dumb Pollock I am. Modified my newest BRA rifle extensively. Just now am I getting a bit of consistent results. Back to Varget? Maybe away from the 450 primer to the BR4's. Slow down. Using a different brand barrel that is 5R and 7.5 twist instead of the 8's. Back to the Dasher barrel length of 30".
Well all this time I kept another of my rifles a Dasher. Two perfect scores on the last two steel shoots I used it in. Couple tests on paper and solid, no flyers at 3,030fps using plain old Berger Hybrids. Getting another barrel ready with a new Dasher reamer I just got. Excited when I can try new things but the old Dasher has 1,900 ads through it and is near unbeatable. Even my gunsmith trashed his new BRA build and is building another Dasher like of old.
Other than Bart, I have yet to see anyone shoot a BRA with consistent great results at Manatee in South Florida. Dashers rule but lots sure climbed on the BRA bandwagon. Glad it was not a rocker as so many right now are falling off.
Thought i was getting pretty good at 600 yards with my multiple Dashers. Then the BRA craze came a few years ago. Man I spent thousands and jumped on that BRA bandwagon. Had visions of being another Tom Mousel or Bart Seuter. Ended up being just a dumb Pollock as always.
Dashers and Varget - a match made in Heaven. Only now it had to be H4895 with the BRA. Me and that powder never got along. Velocities over 3,000 fps were easy with the BRA. To get accuracy I played and still do, around 2,960 fps using 105-105 gr. bullets. My Dashers using Varget shot and still shoot well at 3,020 - 3,030 fps. Varget and my BRA always seemed to be at odds.
Test, test, test with every BRA combination I could find. Sometimes they did shoot small - once. Next time, awful. Wore out one barrel, then another, then got pissed at more barrels and still playing with more on two different actions. One was formerly a Dasher and the other a "million-dollar" build for BRA. Never have they been consistent like my Dashers.
Got into the custom bullet craze and blew more money. All the talk of great shooting with BRA had me stoked to spend more money and do more testing. Still shot like the dumb Pollock I am. Modified my newest BRA rifle extensively. Just now am I getting a bit of consistent results. Back to Varget? Maybe away from the 450 primer to the BR4's. Slow down. Using a different brand barrel that is 5R and 7.5 twist instead of the 8's. Back to the Dasher barrel length of 30".
Well all this time I kept another of my rifles a Dasher. Two perfect scores on the last two steel shoots I used it in. Couple tests on paper and solid, no flyers at 3,030fps using plain old Berger Hybrids. Getting another barrel ready with a new Dasher reamer I just got. Excited when I can try new things but the old Dasher has 1,900 ads through it and is near unbeatable. Even my gunsmith trashed his new BRA build and is building another Dasher like of old.
Other than Bart, I have yet to see anyone shoot a BRA with consistent great results at Manatee in South Florida. Dashers rule but lots sure climbed on the BRA bandwagon. Glad it was not a rocker as so many right now are falling off.
Last edited:
Interesting how there are the hot and cold experiences with the BRA..With my first barrel I rememember getting to the 31gn mark with 4895 which was what Tom Mousel had been having luck with at 5ish jam and bingo half way round the world the exact same load worked, tiny groups at 200m then straight on to winning a major match at 500m..
SHall
Silver $$ Contributor
I would say the best, most consistent barrel I ever had was chambered in a straight 6BR. I won 2 Nationals (IBS 600 Yard), SOY, multible records at 600. It shot the 1st load I ever shot in it. When I ran out of the orginal 1000 Berger 105VLD’s lot 628, I tried every great bullet I had (old Spencer 103’s, VT’s, my best 105 VLD, and Hybrids) and it NEVER SHOT GREAT AGAIN (oh, yea, almost forgot, until I rechamber it for a 6BR-AI). So, I guess, if I had not found the right combination for that 6BR I would be slamming the BR. Very, very few barrels will shot most everthing you put in it, you have to find what it likes. Some barrels are not that great and you will never make it a winner. If a barrel maker could promiss me a true hummer barrel, I would be estatic, I would not care what it was chambered for as long as it was made off the Lapua 6BR case.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
In my opinion LR BR is a tuning competition. The guys that are the best tuners and loaders usually win. This is NOT a game were the better shooter can take an average gun and win consistently. To see the difference in accuracy between any cases that are as similar as these 2 really takes world class shooters with years of records. They do exist and the difference is obvious. But you just will not see it with a barrel or two. Now any time you change something theres a learning curve. Some guys are very good testers and its no problem. Hunter3401 (Samual Hall) is one of only a few guys that post here that have set multiple records in LR BR. He knows what he's talking about.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Great thread.
xswanted
Gold $$ Contributor
I think it’s all in the shooters head.
I’ve had a couple Dashers and one shot better than the other but both were good.
One shot Berger’s well the other wanted Sierra’s.
I’ve never used the false shoulder method either for forming brass. I won’t shoot any benchrest winning groups at 600 yards but a guy can have a darn accurate Dasher by just fireforming them.
I’m excited to try a 6BRA as well though, I think both are darn good but it all boils down to the guy pulling the trigger and the amount of time he spent learning to shoot it
I’ve had a couple Dashers and one shot better than the other but both were good.
One shot Berger’s well the other wanted Sierra’s.
I’ve never used the false shoulder method either for forming brass. I won’t shoot any benchrest winning groups at 600 yards but a guy can have a darn accurate Dasher by just fireforming them.
I’m excited to try a 6BRA as well though, I think both are darn good but it all boils down to the guy pulling the trigger and the amount of time he spent learning to shoot it
SHall
Silver $$ Contributor
Alex is exactly right. LR has gotten so competitive that the guys that win consistently are the one that stay on top of the tune. That is, they shoot before each match to tune as close as they can to conditions (temps. and humity) they are like see at the match. You may have an awesome load combination in March when it is 50-60 degrees, shoot a match a few days later and shoot great and win. Two months later in May go shoot at the same range, but the temp is 80 degrees. You shoot the same load in the same rifle and shoot terrible. Well guess what, it ain’t the cartridge’s fault, its yours. You did not re-tune. I have had that happen so many times it is not funny. Be it a 6BR, BRX, BRDX, Dasher, BRBS, or AI. I use to know my 6BR so well, if it was hotter than what I thought it would be that day of the match, I would keep my rounds in a cooler until I shot. If it was cooler than I thought, I would set my rounds in direct sunlight or even hotter on the dash of my truck with windows up. (warning:dont try this at home). I am not as competitive and obsessive as I use to be a fews years ago. I have had some serious heath problems (stage 3 colon cancer). But I know that your most competitve shooters tune and shoot about every week. At 1000 yards, that would be Mike Wison, Tom Mousel and some other greats. It just aggravates me to hear people dish out on any cartridge on the BR case, when that is probable last on the very long list of varibles it can be! Further: PPC’s tunes are so sensitive, there is a warm up day before the day of the match to tune your load. Just about all if not all shooters load after every relay of the match. They adjust as needed. I can’t remember Tony Boyer or any other the great short range shooters bad mouthing the PPC because they got out of tune and did not shoot well. I would even say as you shoot even further from short range like 600 yards or even worse, 1000 yards, the tune is even more critical. It may come to the day where it get so competitve that we have to load and adjust tune at a match in order to win at LR!
Here is a little history of my struggles. My first Dasher barrel was a Krieger 8 twist and I used it to learn how to load for the Dasher. I shot Mostly Berger 108's, 105 Hybrids, and VLD Hunting . After many rounds I obtained a Bartlein in 8.25 to 7.75 Gain Twist. This was a great barrel and I started winning a few matches with Berger Hybrids and 32.8 gr. of Varget. My third Dasher barrel was a Brux 8 twist and it was a great barrel shooting Bart's Infinities and Varget. I still own this barrel, but it has many rounds. Maybe this was my best barrel or maybe I just learned to shoot better.
About two years ago, I got "BRAI FEVER" and got a Brux 8 twist barrel and cut it to 30" and added a Ezell tuner. It was muzzle heavy, so I took the tuner off and cut the barrel back to 28 inches. It shot fair but I could not win with it. I got another Brux and won a 300 yard match while fire forming brass. After trying H4895, Varget, Re15, and being unable to win at 600 yards, I bought a Krieger barrel and got the same results with this new BRAI. My next BRAI was a James Lederer Barrel I got from Dusty Stevens in a trade. Although this barrel shows promise in practice sessions, I have not shot well with in the two matches with which I used it. I am still holding out hope for this new barrel (also an 8 twist). Good shooting...James
About two years ago, I got "BRAI FEVER" and got a Brux 8 twist barrel and cut it to 30" and added a Ezell tuner. It was muzzle heavy, so I took the tuner off and cut the barrel back to 28 inches. It shot fair but I could not win with it. I got another Brux and won a 300 yard match while fire forming brass. After trying H4895, Varget, Re15, and being unable to win at 600 yards, I bought a Krieger barrel and got the same results with this new BRAI. My next BRAI was a James Lederer Barrel I got from Dusty Stevens in a trade. Although this barrel shows promise in practice sessions, I have not shot well with in the two matches with which I used it. I am still holding out hope for this new barrel (also an 8 twist). Good shooting...James
Once the stigma is there, I think you need to change to get back to shooting well. If you've tried 2 or more barrels in a new chamber, and it is just not working for you, then a change back to what you used before could be all it takes to break the mental block you've created. Our brains are powerful things, and the subtle alterations in your subconscious between KNOWING it will shoot, and hoping it will shoot are powerful.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
A lot of guys that shoot LR expect a rifle to shoot the same load year round. Now, there are some barrels that will do it, and if you have one, baby it. But the reality is thats its crazy to expect a barrel to shoot the same tune in different conditions, like Sam, I also tuned my dasher the day before the match when I was serious, and would warm up or cool down the ammunition if the weather changed. If it changed enough I was screwed and my 3" 10 shot group gun would shoot 8"-10", and that was a good barrel too.
I was all set on picking the Dasher as my first 6br family cartridge but changed my mind at the last second and went with the 6BRA
In my 6BRA, 30.8g of H4895 shooting the 108 Bergers is where I’ve found the consistently accurate node. It’s also traveling at ~2,920fps with an ES of 13 and SD of 5
This is with a 27”, 1:7.5 J Lederer HV barrel
5 shot groups are consistently 0.2 MOA or better at distances from 100 to 600
Last month I shot it in a 600 yard F Class match and scored a 600 - 36x. The only round that didn’t find the 10 ring was the 1st sighter of the 2nd match.
Would I be doing any better with the Dasher? I don’t know. All I can say for sure is that the 6BRA is scratching the itch.
In my 6BRA, 30.8g of H4895 shooting the 108 Bergers is where I’ve found the consistently accurate node. It’s also traveling at ~2,920fps with an ES of 13 and SD of 5
This is with a 27”, 1:7.5 J Lederer HV barrel
5 shot groups are consistently 0.2 MOA or better at distances from 100 to 600
Last month I shot it in a 600 yard F Class match and scored a 600 - 36x. The only round that didn’t find the 10 ring was the 1st sighter of the 2nd match.
Would I be doing any better with the Dasher? I don’t know. All I can say for sure is that the 6BRA is scratching the itch.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
In my experience and opinions, if someone is having problems getting any of the 6BR family variants going, it is more likely to be issues with the rifle/stock/scope/rests and/or reloading related issues, then the cartridge choice.
Like the one who was on his 4th barrel before finding out that inconsistent seating and case runout were his real issues.
Another who was on his 3rd barrel before they switched scopes and found that scope shifting was the culprit.
And another that it took them a couple years of on/off issues before figuring out how to clean a barrel.
There can be a turd of a barrel here and there, but if anyone is on a 2nd barrel (or more) trying to get things going, best be looking for the real reason(s) beyond the cartridge choice, is my advise.
Like the one who was on his 4th barrel before finding out that inconsistent seating and case runout were his real issues.
Another who was on his 3rd barrel before they switched scopes and found that scope shifting was the culprit.
And another that it took them a couple years of on/off issues before figuring out how to clean a barrel.
There can be a turd of a barrel here and there, but if anyone is on a 2nd barrel (or more) trying to get things going, best be looking for the real reason(s) beyond the cartridge choice, is my advise.
Last edited:
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
This should be a sticky post.
Makes perfect sense to me..
I see a bumper sticker or Tshirt evolving from this post.
If the loads tight....
Something else isn't right.
Should make for some great AS swag.
Personally I am inspired by James Mock.
The young fellas all shoot smaller than I do and I’m ok with that.
I truly find it amazing what they can accomplish.
I’m sometimes disappointed in my performance but never disappointed in the 6 mm BR cartridge.
I hope that when I’m 75 I can get out of bed and to a match period.
Best Regards and much Respect James
SPJ
The young fellas all shoot smaller than I do and I’m ok with that.
I truly find it amazing what they can accomplish.
I’m sometimes disappointed in my performance but never disappointed in the 6 mm BR cartridge.
I hope that when I’m 75 I can get out of bed and to a match period.
Best Regards and much Respect James
SPJ
The BRA has shot small enough for me to do better, but the consistency has just not been there during matches. I have looked at many things (scope, bullets, powder) but have not been able to pin down the cause of my problems. Probably, the problem is me. With that being said, I am going to shoot some at 600 yards this week to try to get prepared for the July match. Two great 600 yard shooters have told me to look at the powder and try to determine if that may be the cause of inconsistency. I have been shooting mostly H4895 and have tried three different lots. One lot is very slow and one is TOO fast. This week I am going to try my current lot from 30.0 gr. to 30.6 with three different bullets (all seated to +.006). I am stopping at 30.6 because of the HOT weather here in Louisiana. Also,
I am going to try some Re15 in a modified ladder test. If there are any worthwhile revelations, I will post the results. Good shooting.....James
I am going to try some Re15 in a modified ladder test. If there are any worthwhile revelations, I will post the results. Good shooting.....James
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.