Bill, I use Federal 205s up to 80 or 90 grains and 450s after that. That was the trend many years ago and I just never got away from it . Right or wrong, I do not know.
I did this test back in May of 2022 with my 30BR Bench rifle. Not a whole lot of difference in performance between the two. I have done similar test with the BR-4s & 450s as well.
Sound advice! I just got a Hawk Hill 10 twist today to replace a 7.5 twist. Berger 90s or bust. I’m going to test both N135 and N140.
Don't overlook 87gr Bergers and Hillbilly Larry Moore makes a 87 gr bt that is long and sleek but I've not asked the bc on it. I'd guess it to be higher than the 90 berger bt though. It certainly "looks" like it would be. Also, the 88gr high bc berger and Randy Robinette has a very good 95gr flatbase.
I can’t keep the 87s and 88s in tune as long. I have considered the 95 BIB though.
I love the stuff in my 12 twist 6 Grendels with 80's. It's been very good to me but I've settled on h4895 in the 10twist and 87 Hillbillies, for now. I agree on the 88's. They seem seating depth sensitive.
I too load in the lower 29 range in all my 6brs with the 105. Using closer to 30 grains locks the brass in the chamber. CCI 450 too much?
Just a few words about 8208. Starting in 2013 I used it in a 6 PPC for several years then swapped over to a slow twist (13.5") 6 BR. Things were going well until late last summer (2022), when I opened an 8# jug with a 2020 lot number.
The powder was slightly different colored than all previous jugs, and some of the kernels were odd shaped. Since minor changes happen off 'n on with powders, I didn't give it a thought. Worked up my go to load, and struggled with it from then on. In short: it would work great, then wouldn't.
After changing everything - including my socks - I bought some N135, worked up a go to load, and never looked back. I've had several good IBS Score Matches with it to date, so it's my new standard.
It appears the last "good" i.e., consistent, lots of 8208 were from 2018. I never had any from 2019, but it's apparent the 2020 is lacking. And, two friends who have the same lot, cannot get it to shot consistently either, so it's not just me. Probably a good thing, since 8208 has become the newest Unobtainium.
Well . . . it looks like I managed more than "a few words,"but I guess the takeaway is - if you or anyone else is having inconsistent-wonky results with 8208, check the lot #. If it's after 2018-19, that might be why.
Finally and as always, I could be wrong . . .
SJ
N-135 is a good powder for sure but you have to be careful at the higher end loads especially if jamming as pressure will raise it's ugly head really quick.
I’m still working with my 2014 stuff, and while the load isn’t too hot, it’s done well from 15 to 108 degrees. I had a node nearly a grain wide and load in the middle though. Perhaps that was luck.
You could do a lot worse than using this load/specs in your rifle. Great shooting.
I thought so too but it didn't hold up well for me. I had a few groups like that and with very little testing, had no big groups. Key words though, "very little testing." The h4895 load shoots a little tighter even and has held up during an entire match in addition to testing. It might be worth going back and re-visiting the 90gr/8208 load. It acted like a lot of bullets that were inconsistent somewhere, to me, but I haven't sorted them at all, so not sure. All I know is it would shoot small and then have one pop out and it went away with the other load. Again, more testing and checking things better and it may well shoot the bergers better than I've found so far. I've just been very behind with work stuff and had very little time to do it justice yet. I'm getting caught up and I'll do a bit of testing before the 200/300 UBR Nats in less than 2 weeks now!
Ive also been shooting mid weight bullets in 6BR and found 8208 was great with bullets lighter than 95gn, especially if they liked jump and not jam. If I started jamming 95gn bullets (more pressure) , I found slightly slower H4895 powder was more consistent. The 92gn bullets I am currently using like jump and pair perfectly with 8208.
I've been using both 2019 and 2020 lots of 8208 for a 12 twist bbl shooting 80's for some time now. It's been good enough for a couple of national championship yardage wins. It could still be the powder in this combination though, so I won't dismiss the possibility. Again, I can't overstate how little testing I've done with the 8208 load with this combination of components. By this stage of the game, I normally have things like this well plotted out by now, individual lots of each components, including thorough seating depth, neck tension and primer testing but I simply haven't had the time to do it any justice to this point. Prior lots were from 2019 and this lot is from 2020. I don't have notes readily available for earlier lots but the 2019 and 2020 lots appear to be near identical according to my old and new chrono data that I have saved for the 80gr loads used prior to this combination. Again, I can't and won't dispute the findings of you or others concerning prior lots vs these but the results have been good enough for a couple of national championship agg wins since working with these lots from 2019 and 2020. All I'm saying is that I'm not struggling with the newer lots in a known load and multiple bbls/rifles. The prior testing and results are there. This is just a very new combination to me, a 10 twist 6 Grendel with 87 and 90gr bullets. So, I do have a lot to learn about it yet. I can't say that the 8208/90gr combo is a bad one yet, until I do more testing. In the meantime, the h4895/87 hillbilly combination has yet to disappoint, so for now, I like what I've seen with that combo. It is out performing the 8208/90gr load to this point. I do remember a little change in color of the 8208 at some point but I test with each lot change, typically and I don't recall a big change in load data from those earlier lots, but I could be wrong. Whenever possible, I test the same loads, chrono them against old data and typically adjust the tuner if needed. If the results are there, I stay with that load but I test around that load with new lots to see if it helps or hurts anything. If all checks out, after any fine tuning to the load that I may or may not do, I use the tuner to keep it shooting small as needed.You said, " . . . it would shoot small then have one pop out," and, " . . . it went away with the other load." That's exactly the same type of inconsistency, I (and a couple of others) was having with the 8208. Which says to me Mike, that with everything else the same, it's-a the powder.Check the Lot # and let us know what it is.
As competitors when we find something that works well, we just assume that going forward, it (whatever "it" is) will continue to do so. I mean, who's-a-gonna question a major powder maker's products, or a long-time, custom bullet-maker's bullets? And, it's the same situation with primers, brass, rests, etc., etc.
We need to keep in mind that a precision-shooting program is balanced on the knife-edge of instability, so it takes only a tiny change somewhere in the mix, to derail it. When the wheels come off we tend to blame the equipment, conditions, our wind-doping skills, and/or bench manners. But, maybe those are just fine, and it's something else entirely . . . like wonky components.
Glad you found something else that works.
SJ
The 7mm and 6.5 VLD isn’t bad at all to tune up, just stay intimate with the lands or a big jump.
I’m using 450’s in my BRA, it seems to shoot exactly the same with 7 1/2’s as well.
