6br fav loads

[Bill Norris]

Bill, I use Federal 205s up to 80 or 90 grains and 450s after that. That was the trend many years ago and I just never got away from it . Right or wrong, I do not know.

I used 450s in my first BRA and 205M in my new one with the same bullet and landed on the same charge. Go figure.

I did this test back in May of 2022 with my 30BR Bench rifle. Not a whole lot of difference in performance between the two. I have done similar test with the BR-4s & 450s as well.

118 GR. BIBS F B H P DANZ COATED 1.588 O M 2.350 COL T/L B S .260 B C .330
POWDER TEST 34.0 [ 34.2] 34.4 GR. H-4198 PRIMER FED 205M
POWDER TEST 34.0 [ 34.2] 34.4 GR. H-4198 PRIMER CCI BR-4
SEATED @ 1.600 O M 2.362 COL .012 JAM .324 BUSHING
FED 205M 5-SHOT GROUP .174 M V 3043 S D 6.24 E S 12 05/07/22
CCI BR-4 5-SHOT GROUP .107 M V 3041 S D 7.59 E S 17 05/07/22

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'd entertain a different bullet if it were me. If you run the numbers, a 90-95gr bullet doesn't leave much if anything on the table in terms of drift and IME, they shoot better than the 105's. H4895 works well, as does varget and n140. I'm shooting that weight class at about 3050fps from a 6 Grendel without pushing them real hard. I'm sure you can get a bit more speed than that. It might be that your bbl just doesn't care much for the 105's. Either way, I'd put it into a ballistics program and see what difference you have in terms of speed but I'd think you could get into the 3200fps range with them. If they shoot for you like mine does, it's worth it IMO, to give up a little bc. Just my 2 cents though. You don't know unless you try it. At 1000 I might change my opinion but at the yardages you intend for it, hey, just try them and see.

FWIW, I chambered up a bbl for @Shooter13 some time back in a straight 6BR 8 twist and he had small group in a 4 target side match at 500 on all 4 targets using 90gr bergers and I think 31.0gr of varget. It was a fun match after a UBR match so I'm sure most others were shooting their short range rifles in it, though. Maybe he'll comment but IIRC they were all right around an inch. Not bad.

 

[Clancy]

I'd entertain a different bullet if it were me. If you run the numbers, a 90-95gr bullet doesn't leave much if anything on the table in terms of drift and IME, they shoot better than the 105's. H4895 works well, as does varget and n140. I'm shooting that weight class at about 3050fps from a 6 Grendel without pushing them real hard. I'm sure you can get a bit more speed than that. It might be that your bbl just doesn't care much for the 105's. Either way, I'd put it into a ballistics program and see what difference you have in terms of speed but I'd think you could get into the 3200fps range with them. If they shoot for you like mine does, it's worth it IMO, to give up a little bc. Just my 2 cents though. You don't know unless you try it. At 1000 I might change my opinion but at the yardages you intend for it, hey, just try them and see.

FWIW, I chambered up a bbl for @Shooter13 some time back in a straight 6BR 8 twist and he had small group in a 4 target side match at 500 on all 4 targets using 90gr bergers and I think 31.0gr of varget. It was a fun match after a UBR match so I'm sure most others were shooting their short range rifles in it, though. Maybe he'll comment but IIRC they were all right around an inch. Not bad.

Sound advice! I just got a Hawk Hill 10 twist today to replace a 7.5 twist. Berger 90s or bust. I’m going to test both N135 and N140.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Sound advice! I just got a Hawk Hill 10 twist today to replace a 7.5 twist. Berger 90s or bust. I’m going to test both N135 and N140.

Don't overlook 87gr Bergers and Hillbilly Larry Moore makes a 87 gr bt that is long and sleek but I've not asked the bc on it. I'd guess it to be higher than the 90 berger bt though. It certainly "looks" like it would be. Also, the 88gr high bc berger and Randy Robinette has a very good 95gr flatbase.

I posted this a while back. I thought I had something and it wasn't bad but it didn't hold up with the 90gr berger and load I had at the time. I went to the hillbilly 87 and h4895 though, and it shoots very well. I got 2nd in the last 100-200 ubr UL match I shot it in. Score wasn't anything to write home about but I made a ton of mistakes that day. It shot better than I did and that combo is not supposed to be competitive in short range, especially not in the good conditions we had that day. I will say that I plan to shoot it in a couple of weeks in the UBR 200-300 Nats and I think it's pretty near ideal for that match. Doesn't mean I will be able to do it justice but I've seen enough from it that I don't feel out gunned for that match and yardages. We'll just have to see what happens. Here's a link to the thread I was referring to and a pic.

It's fun playing with this 10 twist. I haven't had much time with it but so far, pretty good. I'm pretty much starting from scratch with this combo as I just don't have much experience with it yet.

ruh roh raggy!!!

I just started testing a new to me combination...a 10 twist 6 Grendel. I fired about 20 rounds yesterday using 6 ARC bolt gun data with AA2460. Five shot groups were about .200 or so...not bad at all. I just loaded up the same 90gr Berger wit 29.7gr of 8208 at .024 in, from just touching the...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Pic of a 5 shot 100 yd group with the 90's and 8208

 

[Clancy]

Don't overlook 87gr Bergers and Hillbilly Larry Moore makes a 87 gr bt that is long and sleek but I've not asked the bc on it. I'd guess it to be higher than the 90 berger bt though. It certainly "looks" like it would be. Also, the 88gr high bc berger and Randy Robinette has a very good 95gr flatbase.

I posted this a while back. I thought I had something and it wasn't bad but it didn't hold up with the 90gr berger and load I had at the time. I went to the hillbilly 87 and h4895 though, and it shoots very well. I got 2nd in the last 100-200 ubr UL match I shot it in. Score wasn't anything to write home about but I made a ton of mistakes that day. It shot better than I did and that combo is not supposed to be competitive in short range, especially not in the good conditions we had that day. I will say that I plan to shoot it in a couple of weeks in the UBR 200-300 Nats and I think it's pretty near ideal for that match. Doesn't mean I will be able to do it justice but I've seen enough from it that I don't feel out gunned for that match and yardages. We'll just have to see what happens. Here's a link to the thread I was referring to and a pic.

ruh roh raggy!!!

I just started testing a new to me combination...a 10 twist 6 Grendel. I fired about 20 rounds yesterday using 6 ARC bolt gun data with AA2460. Five shot groups were about .200 or so...not bad at all. I just loaded up the same 90gr Berger wit 29.7gr of 8208 at .024 in, from just touching the...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Pic of a 5 shot 100 yd group with the 90's and 8208
View attachment 1454721

I can’t keep the 87s and 88s in tune as long. I have considered the 95 BIB though.

I got away from 8208 years ago, and I speculate it’s for the same reason. It’s supposed to be almost entirely immune to temperature, but it’s certainly sensitive to something because it’s not too consistent for me.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I can’t keep the 87s and 88s in tune as long. I have considered the 95 BIB though.

I got away from 8208 years ago, and I speculate it’s for the same reason. It’s supposed to be almost entirely immune to temperature, but it’s certainly sensitive to something because it’s not too consistent for me.

I love the stuff in my 12 twist 6 Grendels with 80's. It's been very good to me but I've settled on h4895 in the 10twist and 87 Hillbillies, for now. I agree on the 88's. They seem seating depth sensitive.

 

[Skeetman59]

My straight six BR liked the Berger 108 and Lapua brass with Varget.

My Savage/Shilen 6BR runs the same load as yours with amazing accuracy.

 

[littlebuddybr]

Varget and 105's have always worked well for me in the 6br's and brx's.

The vld can be a p.i.a to tune.
But they usually shoot very good.

 

[joshb]

29.30gr of varget, 105vld .004 off, lapua brass, BR4
Shot me 4 tactical class 600 yard records with this load. This one measured .948

I too load in the lower 29 range in all my 6brs with the 105. Using closer to 30 grains locks the brass in the chamber. CCI 450 too much?

 

[Clancy]

Just a few words about 8208. Starting in 2013 I used it in a 6 PPC for several years then swapped over to a slow twist (13.5") 6 BR. Things were going well until late last summer (2022), when I opened an 8# jug with a 2020 lot number.

The powder was slightly different colored than all previous jugs, and some of the kernels were odd shaped. Since minor changes happen off 'n on with powders, I didn't give it a thought. Worked up my go to load, and struggled with it from then on. In short: it would work great, then wouldn't.

After changing everything - including my socks - I bought some N135, worked up a go to load, and never looked back. I've had several good IBS Score Matches with it to date, so it's my new standard.

It appears the last "good" i.e., consistent, lots of 8208 were from 2018. I never had any from 2019, but it's apparent the 2020 is lacking. And, two friends who have the same lot, cannot get it to shot consistently either, so it's not just me. Probably a good thing, since 8208 has become the newest Unobtainium.

Well . . . it looks like I managed more than "a few words," but I guess the takeaway is - if you or anyone else is having inconsistent-wonky results with 8208, check the lot #. If it's after 2018-19, that might be why.

Finally and as always, I could be wrong . . .

SJ

Here’s some N135 in a BR this morning- 5 of my new batch of Avengers from a little hunting rifle off a bipod.
I’ve got a lot of faith in N135.

 

[Bill Norris]

View attachment 1455303
Here’s some N135 in a BR this morning- 5 of my new batch of Avengers from a little hunting rifle off a bipod.
I’ve got a lot of faith in N135.

N-135 is a good powder for sure but you have to be careful at the higher end loads especially if jamming as pressure will raise it's ugly head really quick.

 

[BW64]

With the 105s I do 29.8 Varget @ .005 jam. Gives me 2800 fps out of a 26" tube & nice little holes!

 

[Clancy]

N-135 is a good powder for sure but you have to be careful at the higher end loads especially if jamming as pressure will raise it's ugly head really quick.

I’m still working with my 2014 stuff, and while the load isn’t too hot, it’s done well from 15 to 108 degrees. I had a node nearly a grain wide and load in the middle though. Perhaps that was luck.

But…. When I open my new stuff this winter I am certainly going to keep that in mind. Thank you for the heads up.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Don't overlook 87gr Bergers and Hillbilly Larry Moore makes a 87 gr bt that is long and sleek but I've not asked the bc on it. I'd guess it to be higher than the 90 berger bt though. It certainly "looks" like it would be. Also, the 88gr high bc berger and Randy Robinette has a very good 95gr flatbase.

I posted this a while back. I thought I had something and it wasn't bad but it didn't hold up with the 90gr berger and load I had at the time. I went to the hillbilly 87 and h4895 though, and it shoots very well. I got 2nd in the last 100-200 ubr UL match I shot it in. Score wasn't anything to write home about but I made a ton of mistakes that day. It shot better than I did and that combo is not supposed to be competitive in short range, especially not in the good conditions we had that day. I will say that I plan to shoot it in a couple of weeks in the UBR 200-300 Nats and I think it's pretty near ideal for that match. Doesn't mean I will be able to do it justice but I've seen enough from it that I don't feel out gunned for that match and yardages. We'll just have to see what happens. Here's a link to the thread I was referring to and a pic.

It's fun playing with this 10 twist. I haven't had much time with it but so far, pretty good. I'm pretty much starting from scratch with this combo as I just don't have much experience with it yet.

ruh roh raggy!!!

I just started testing a new to me combination...a 10 twist 6 Grendel. I fired about 20 rounds yesterday using 6 ARC bolt gun data with AA2460. Five shot groups were about .200 or so...not bad at all. I just loaded up the same 90gr Berger wit 29.7gr of 8208 at .024 in, from just touching the...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Pic of a 5 shot 100 yd group with the 90's and 8208
View attachment 1454721

You could do a lot worse than using this load/specs in your rifle. Great shooting.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

You could do a lot worse than using this load/specs in your rifle. Great shooting.

I thought so too but it didn't hold up well for me. I had a few groups like that and with very little testing, had no big groups. Key words though, "very little testing." The h4895 load shoots a little tighter even and has held up during an entire match in addition to testing. It might be worth going back and re-visiting the 90gr/8208 load. It acted like a lot of bullets that were inconsistent somewhere, to me, but I haven't sorted them at all, so not sure. All I know is it would shoot small and then have one pop out and it went away with the other load. Again, more testing and checking things better and it may well shoot the bergers better than I've found so far. I've just been very behind with work stuff and had very little time to do it justice yet. I'm getting caught up and I'll do a bit of testing before the 200/300 UBR Nats in less than 2 weeks now!

I just have to minimize my own mistakes and it's shooting well enough. Tough though, without trigger time.

 

[RDavies]

I thought so too but it didn't hold up well for me. I had a few groups like that and with very little testing, had no big groups. Key words though, "very little testing." The h4895 load shoots a little tighter even and has held up during an entire match in addition to testing. It might be worth going back and re-visiting the 90gr/8208 load. It acted like a lot of bullets that were inconsistent somewhere, to me, but I haven't sorted them at all, so not sure. All I know is it would shoot small and then have one pop out and it went away with the other load. Again, more testing and checking things better and it may well shoot the bergers better than I've found so far. I've just been very behind with work stuff and had very little time to do it justice yet. I'm getting caught up and I'll do a bit of testing before the 200/300 UBR Nats in less than 2 weeks now!

I just have to minimize my own mistakes and it's shooting well enough. Tough though, without trigger time.

Ive also been shooting mid weight bullets in 6BR and found 8208 was great with bullets lighter than 95gn, especially if they liked jump and not jam. If I started jamming 95gn bullets (more pressure) , I found slightly slower H4895 powder was more consistent. The 92gn bullets I am currently using like jump and pair perfectly with 8208.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

You said, " . . . it would shoot small then have one pop out," and, " . . . it went away with the other load." That's exactly the same type of inconsistency, I (and a couple of others) was having with the 8208. Which says to me Mike, that with everything else the same, it's-a the powder. Check the Lot # and let us know what it is.

As competitors when we find something that works well, we just assume that going forward, it (whatever "it" is) will continue to do so. I mean, who's-a-gonna question a major powder maker's products, or a long-time, custom bullet-maker's bullets? And, it's the same situation with primers, brass, rests, etc., etc.

We need to keep in mind that a precision-shooting program is balanced on the knife-edge of instability, so it takes only a tiny change somewhere in the mix, to derail it. When the wheels come off we tend to blame the equipment, conditions, our wind-doping skills, and/or bench manners. But, maybe those are just fine, and it's something else entirely . . . like wonky components.

Glad you found something else that works.

SJ

I've been using both 2019 and 2020 lots of 8208 for a 12 twist bbl shooting 80's for some time now. It's been good enough for a couple of national championship yardage wins. It could still be the powder in this combination though, so I won't dismiss the possibility. Again, I can't overstate how little testing I've done with the 8208 load with this combination of components. By this stage of the game, I normally have things like this well plotted out by now, individual lots of each components, including thorough seating depth, neck tension and primer testing but I simply haven't had the time to do it any justice to this point. Prior lots were from 2019 and this lot is from 2020. I don't have notes readily available for earlier lots but the 2019 and 2020 lots appear to be near identical according to my old and new chrono data that I have saved for the 80gr loads used prior to this combination. Again, I can't and won't dispute the findings of you or others concerning prior lots vs these but the results have been good enough for a couple of national championship agg wins since working with these lots from 2019 and 2020. All I'm saying is that I'm not struggling with the newer lots in a known load and multiple bbls/rifles. The prior testing and results are there. This is just a very new combination to me, a 10 twist 6 Grendel with 87 and 90gr bullets. So, I do have a lot to learn about it yet. I can't say that the 8208/90gr combo is a bad one yet, until I do more testing. In the meantime, the h4895/87 hillbilly combination has yet to disappoint, so for now, I like what I've seen with that combo. It is out performing the 8208/90gr load to this point. I do remember a little change in color of the 8208 at some point but I test with each lot change, typically and I don't recall a big change in load data from those earlier lots, but I could be wrong. Whenever possible, I test the same loads, chrono them against old data and typically adjust the tuner if needed. If the results are there, I stay with that load but I test around that load with new lots to see if it helps or hurts anything. If all checks out, after any fine tuning to the load that I may or may not do, I use the tuner to keep it shooting small as needed.

Ya'll keep the good advice coming though. In no way do I mean anything other than to say I'm not struggling with these newer lots, in my rifles but that this bbl/bullet(10tw/87gr) and whole combination is very new to me and I absolutely need to spend more time with it than I have, to figure out the nuances...I enjoy this kinda thing but when you change from the typical, say 68gr ppc and n133 or LT that is so commonly used by many, I fully expect there to be a learning curve to it. Actually, I'm pretty impressed with how well it's doing with so little effort to this point. You know the saying..."that'll NEVER work!"

 

[SKWERLZ]

I have not tried VLD in the 6BR, but I heard that they are fussy to tune. I can’t find Berger Hybrids, so I’m using Lapua Scenar L, what I’m finding is pick a powder charge and stick with it. Low SD etc, then work with seating depth. My experience is within 6k is where you will find acceptable accuracy nodes, so I understand that it’s small, but run testing with no larger than 2k-3K difference between ladder steps. Otherwise you will miss your node and be testing large groups and wondering why nothing is working. I think the best method and money saver I have found for developing a load is finding the lands or Jam with multiple methods, and then seating them back 2-5k, to avoid sticking a bullet and loading up 50 rounds at a max length, bringing them All to the range and then using a KM Arbor press to find the seating depth. It will save many trips to the range. Saves time/money. It’s also the best bullet seating Press for concentric rounds.

The 7mm and 6.5 VLD isn’t bad at all to tune up, just stay intimate with the lands or a big jump.
If your in those windows you’ll find happiness.

What BC you getting with the scenar L’s?
I know they have a reputation like SMK’s being very easy to tune.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Bill, I use Federal 205s up to 80 or 90 grains and 450s after that. That was the trend many years ago and I just never got away from it . Right or wrong, I do not know.

I used 450s in my first BRA and 205M in my new one with the same bullet and landed on the same charge. Go figure.

I’m using 450’s in my BRA, it seems to shoot exactly the same with 7 1/2’s as well.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I’m using 450’s in my BRA, it seems to shoot exactly the same with 7 1/2’s as well.

FWIW, swapping from BR4's to 450's woke my h4895 load up considerably. I have not tested them in this setup with the 8208 load, iirc.

I realize this thread is specifically about a 6BR but the BR and Grendel are very similar and much of what works in one, works in the other. Just know that the BR is a couple of grains more capacity.