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6BR, 6BRA, Dasher for 87-Vmax

Sitting on a 28" 10-twist Krieger blank and trying to decide what to do with it. Leading towards building something around the 87 vmax, and and leaning 6 Dasher. Prairie Dogs at medium range, or on the windy days, would be the name of the game (22BR with 53s and 6BR with 58s for the high volume shorter stuff).

I was even thinking about 243AI for a little more juice, but I might be happier with the inherent accuracy and barrel life of the 6BR derivatives.

I have Harrels dies, and wouldn't need to fireform with standard 6BR, but I'm thinking the Dasher ought to be able to get me into a higher node with the 87s, and getting a Harrels Dasher die wouldn't cost much. Any feedback much appreciated!
 
I think a 10 twist BRA would be perfect for 87 Vmax. You would get slightly more case capacity with a Dasher, but that short neck makes proper freebore selection way more critical IMO.
 
Both good points.

As for the Dasher, I suppose the short neck is in fact a deficit. Not sure what the velocity potential/difference between the Dasher, then BRA, then standard BR would be. I was hoping to eek out as much juice/velocity as I could.

Although, if the gains aren't significant, the standard BR has appeal because I already have custom reamer and matched dies. It's zero freebore reamer, which might be okay for the 87 Vmax... though the bottom of bullet would be into the shoulder region, it looks like the boat tail juncture would still be in the neck, just barely...so maybe my existing reamer would be just fine.
 
I have done a lot of Dashers and BRAs for the light bullets with a zero freebore. Just like with the 103 grain class of bullet, you can get to the same node in a BRA as in a Dasher. Depending on barrel length you will see 3900-4000 with the 55-60 grain bullets with H322. Thats my favorite combo for ground squirrels here. I dont have as much experiance with the mid weight bullets as I do the lighter ones. Out to about 300 I dont thin you can beat the light bullets. Id also keep with a faster twist than you need, it really makes the bullets explosive. I do 8 twists for the 55s. The throats last longer with the BRA, so thats what I prefer now. But the Dasher will do you well too.
 
In the 6 BRX, I am running 87 V with H4895, accuracy is very impressive to say the least, mine is a 10T with .030 freebore. I was worried about stuffing the bullet down to the level way past the shoulder neck junction.

I monitor for doughnuts with a straightened large paper clip with a small hook bent on the end. I should have ordered a reamer with more neck clearance where I could just stick a bullet down in the case after firing, but hind sight is always 20/20.
 
I have done a lot of Dashers and BRAs for the light bullets with a zero freebore. Just like with the 103 grain class of bullet, you can get to the same node in a BRA as in a Dasher. Depending on barrel length you will see 3900-4000 with the 55-60 grain bullets with H322. Thats my favorite combo for ground squirrels here. I dont have as much experiance with the mid weight bullets as I do the lighter ones. Out to about 300 I dont thin you can beat the light bullets. Id also keep with a faster twist than you need, it really makes the bullets explosive. I do 8 twists for the 55s. The throats last longer with the BRA, so thats what I prefer now. But the Dasher will do you well too.
hmmm, I have yet to try that (fast twist, lighter bullet). But maybe I need to, as I put a lot of "value" on explosive factor.

Both my 6PPC and 6BRs are 14" and hit the 3900fps accuracy node with 22" tube, pushing the 55s. I was looking to push 87s for longer shots, or middle-range shots on windier days...and to do/have something different.

Thank you!
 
Glory land in my 8T, .020 freebore Dasher is with the 60g sierra and old 60g Berger, 60-62g Watsons with AA2230 and H335 at 4000-4100 fps depending on the barrel, have two. I like the 6 BRX(.020 freebore) better, less finicky. Rem 7 1/2's on all.

I have an old lot of Scott's H322 from the mid 80's that shoots fantastic, but slower. This lot# of H322 gets a pretty good powder ring in the bore around 125 rounds, but the H335 and AA2230 is a solid 300 round shot string in-between cleanings. Both the H335 and the 2230 burn real clean on the top end loads. The issue of course with the ball powders is that you can not load them on the very top end, back off 1.0g-1.5g from the top end load for hot weather....dumb butt simple.

I used to carry 2000 rounds of 6 BRX on a single p. dog trip, shot them all, zero freebore chamber shooting 60g sierra and BR bullets at 3800 due to the Rem brass I was shooting. 6 BRX was not a cartridge back then, we called it a 6BR Long with the 6 BR reamer ran in .100 deeper, idea of Jim Williams in Ga. After about 5 firings, I left all 2000 pieces of brass in a p. dog hole up in S.D., and never went back to the cartridge till Lapua brass came out. I had 13 burnt holes in my bolt face from primer leakage on the rem cases.

If you have not tried the 6 BRX with short freebore, you are in for a real treat. 55g Noslers at 4100 on a 27" finished blank is the real deal. The 55g Nosler 6mm bullet has a slightly better BC than the 22 caliber Nosler BT. So, the 6 BRX shooting the 55's is on par with a 22/250 AI shooting 55g Nosler, but the 6 BRX is a LOT easier on barrels.

If you start off with a 30" unturned blank on a 6 BRX, you will get at least one set back on the barrel, if not two. Start the new throat at the same dia as the muzzle dia, you will be good to go. You will scrap the barrel after one chamber with N133,N135, R#15, H4895, and varget as 10" of the barrel will look like it has been "ate up".

I have a theory, after shooting fast twists in 22 PPC, 6 PPC, 6's of various types, and that is that as outside Temperature effects your load, the faster twist increases the pressure spike vs using the same powder in a slow twist. This pressure spike was very, very apparent in the 22 PPC when I was shooting the 52g Speers with approximately the same load, both barrels of the same maker, 8 and 14Twists, chambered with the same reamer.

Make no mistake about the fact that the faster twist makes the bullets open up faster, this is no joke. I saw this in a custom 700, 223 shooting 40g Noslers in a 9T vs 14 Twist. Also, I saw my 22/250 custom shooting the 55g Sierra BTHP just knock over p. dogs at 3650 fps, then saw the HBAR in 223, 7T, blow the p. dogs sky high, 3000 fps, with the 55g bthp doing 600 fps slower!

Rotational Torque on the base of the bullet as the bullet obturates in the barrel is a serious issue, and I suspect that the Nosler Ballistic tips with their thick base are going to shoot very well vs thin cup bullets.

Alex Wheeler lives in p. dog and Squirrel land, I am sure he could write a book on all of this if he had the time.
 
I wouldnt say that, lots of guys here shoot way more than I do. I was into it a few years ago more than I am now. A lot of guys like the smaller bores so they can watch impacts. I did a 22 dasher but went back to the 6mm. The smaller bore didnt really kick that much less and I found the 6 much easier to keep in tune and less picky. Plus those 6mm 55-60 grain bullets at 4k will throw a ground squirrel 20 feet.
 
I ordered 6bra and 6xc in 50 freebore specifically for the 80 to 90 grain varmint bullet.

I forgot I had some Remage 50 fb 6bra in stock as well as the 6xc.

The 6bra 50 fb and the 87 vmax seems like to me that might be the ideal combination. I might have to go shoot one of those myself. I have a bunch of 87s to test.
 
Have you ever shot any 80g noslers in these cases? Strange that you never see anyone ever shooting this bullet and it should expand better than a Berger by far.
 
You'll find Hornady v max 65 grain and up actually fit retired .104ish free bores quite well. My favorite varmint barrel is a 0 free bore, bore rider, dasher that Alex made me. It shoots h322 and 55 blitzkings quite well, and works great 400 yards and in, when they're attacking. I'll have to drag the oheler out with it one day, the lab radar has no chance!

Tom
 
Had a McGowen 28” 1:8 twist chamber with BRA reamer for fclass: .268 neck with .150” free bore. 87gr V-max with 36.0 of CFE shoot 3350fps. Bipod/sand bag accuracy from 10# rifle and factory savage trigger is repeatable ragged hole .25moa 5shot groups at 200 yards. Love the fast twist barrels for lateral dispersion of body parts. Lol
 

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What kind of speeds is the 6BRA getting with 68-70 gr bullets and what powder are most using? Im very impressed with a Krieger 12 twist barrel fight now with 68 gr match bullets and imr8208 fireform loads are 3759 fps!
 
Well gentleman, the quandary remains for me.

I decided I wanted a little more oomph than straight 6BR, for pushing the heavies, and mid-weights, and i was leaning heavily toward the 6BRA, mostly for easier forming and presumed longer throat life. However, I am in process of acquiring used Borden BRM rig chambered in 6 Dasher...apparently this chambered barrel has never been fired. Primarily I was looking for a rig to attach a 22BR barrel to, to shoot the 53s/55s for volume...and i will done xactly that. Inwill then have a switch barrel setup...As for the 1-8 Dasher, I must decide to keep it as Dasher or rechamber to 6BRA. Tough call, because i need to comitt to one, ordereing dies and my own reamer for setting back and chambering up this 1-10" Krieger i have. If i go 6BRA, I'd probably chamber also chamber it in my high volume squirrel gun (for the 55s) instead of regular 6BR, next time. The Dasher fireforming just seems like a lot of work for someone not shooting competition. Maybe I fireform 10 pieces and see how it shoots...if it shoots too goodnto mess with, maybe FireForm 200 pieces on prairie dogs (i have nearly 800 pieces of work hardened 10-12x fired 6BR Lapua).
 
I run 8208 on 65 vmax and 3850 comes to mind, but I m not home to look at notes.

Tom
Wow. I havent heard of too many people loving how 65 Vmax shoots, but dang that would.be impressive. But, using deductive reasoning,...I know standard 6BR can hitnl 4,000fps with 58s in a long tube (propelled by 2230/x-terminator), so these velocities with a 65 grain pill seem totally reasonable. Impressive nonetheless!
 
I fire formed all my AI's on p. dogs and ground squirrels:

17 AH
223 AI
22/250 AI
243 AI

Hint: it is hard to have a 5 gallon bucket of Lapua brass for a p. dog hunt.
 
You'll find Hornady v max 65 grain and up actually fit retired .104ish free bores quite well. My favorite varmint barrel is a 0 free bore, bore rider, dasher that Alex made me. It shoots h322 and 55 blitzkings quite well, and works great 400 yards and in, when they're attacking. I'll have to drag the oheler out with it one day, the lab radar has no chance!

Tom
I was just going back and reading this thread. I ended up buying a used gun that came with a new Dasher...but I ultimately wanted to shoot the 87 Vmax and figured out most lots of those bullets are oversized/fat and literally wouldn't chamber after things got dirty. So I'm getting a Bore Rider reamer. I see you reference that here. I hope it works out well for me!

Second...I see you mention the 55 Blitzkings. I have decided those are my favorite. Being flat base, they just seem a little more accurate than the others. Moreover, I find them slightly more explosive than the 58 Vmax. On my last squirrel shooting trip, my fireforming Dasher load was 3,9850 FPS with 58 Vmax spun by an 8T barrel. My 6BR was pushing the 55 BlitzKing at 3,910FPS from a 14T. I was expecting the 58 Vmax to be more explosive, but ultimate I felt there was slight edge to the 55BlitzKings.

FWIW, In limited group testing with Xterminator and fireformed brass, I ran the 58 Vmax to 4,120fps with no significant pressure signs...28" barrel.
 

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