6.5X55 Load Data: <sigh> a lot of crazy out there

[Scholly]

Hello

Two items in this post - 1 I want to call out just how wild our litigious society has become - specifically regarding reloading manuals! I am a custom gun guy ... building exactly what folks want ... and fitting that gun to their body like a $2K suite ... anyway.

I restored a Frankenstein M95/96 - this rifle (receiver) was originally order from a catalog in the early 60's barreled in a mil. surplus 308 Winchester (yes, you read that correctly). Long story short, we now have a really cool little 6.5X55 with a 24" 1-10 twist. Break in was great - sub MOA with old Sellier & Bellot ammo (131 grain bullets running at 2850 average - about 20 FPS variation across 20 rounds)

Now trying to work up some handloads ... and here is where it gets crazy ... the starting and max loads on this cartridge are ALL over the place! for example:

129 grain bullet:Lyman, Hornady, Speer, and Nosler books list loads with powder charges that varies as much as 10% (sigh) ... where do I even start? I want to run her hot with a 130 grain Swift in the 2850 FPS range ... that is where S&B was running. But I don't want to run 20 five shot groups across my chrono tweaking it in and wrecking the brass I have. I REALLY don't want to run over 50K pressure but I know the action has had literally 1K plus 308 rounds fired through it prior to the rebuild.

What are some pet loads you folks have worked up here? Again, lets keep this sane, but give my you loads - at the very least I want to replicate the S&B perf.

 

[2506]

I have loaded a lot for the 6.5x55 in the 96 Mauser. It is hard to beat one of the 4350 powders for 120 to 140 gr bullets for consistent accuracy and really good velocity.
I use Accurate 4350 and 46 grs with 120s and 45 grs with 140s is supposed to be under 46000 CUP according to the Accurate manual. These are MAX loads so back off a little and work up. Out of the 29" Mauser barrel I get 3000 fps with 120s Sierra or Ballistic Tip and 2800 fps with 140s Sierra or Hornady interlock and 1/2 MOA or better accuracy. All killed deer dead in their tracks most of the time.

 

[ireload2]

People work up loads for the reason that rifles are not all that predictable. That means spending time that maybe you don't want to spend?

 

[Patch700]

Do you happen to know the free bore length of that chamber? Along with what brass you may be using? Also how tight is the chamber compared to the brass that's to be used? If you do that's great , just remember that the people putting out generic load data to the masses do not. Something to ponder....

Good luck with your load testing it sounds like a fun rifle.

 

[Jose_Luis_G]

My winning load is 130 grain Norma Diamond Line, CCI BR2, Norma brass and VihtaVuori N560.
I use 47.2 grain for 32ºC and 48.6 grain at 6ºC. For these loads, the chrono average is of 2874 fps.
Hope this helps.

 

[Scholly]

People work up loads for the reason that rifles are not all that predictable. That means spending time that maybe you don't want to spend?

Fair point ... I know I have to do the work up ... I was hoping save a bit of time starting with some of the pet loads folks on the thread are willing to share.

 

[Scholly]

Do you happen to know the free bore length of that chamber? Along with what brass you may be using? Also how tight is the chamber compared to the brass that's to be used? If you do that's great , just remember that the people putting out generic load data to the masses do not. Something to ponder....

Good luck with your load testing it sounds like a fun rifle.

I put a .04 free bore in when I reamed the barrel ... I will be using the S&B brass from my break in. Not sure about how tight the brass / chamber fit is ... they ejected with out any issue. One interesting note: while doing the case prep and getting ready to reload this batch, all the cases where over length, I had to take off a fair bit of brass when I was doing the case trimming - They either stretched a lot on the first firing ... or S&B creates them out of spec.

 

[XTR]

Try this... It works for me.

I shoot F-TR, there are a whole lot of us using powder and bullet combinations for which there is no load data. Take for instance the Berger 200 Hybrid, in Lapua Palma Brass running Varget or H4895 or N140 or (insert powder)

Last month Berger introdeced a brand new 200grain bullet for F class shooters, no data what so ever out there.

What I do know when I start with I know that there is a MV that has worked for other people with a 200gr bullet, kind of like you do with your rifle.

Pick a powder you know will work (sounds like one of the 4350s from the above posts)

Now load 10 rounds pick a starting point from the loading tables and load 2 each .5gr apart, and load 5 exrtas at your low starting point. Now shoot them over a chrono. Shoot the 5 extras to foul and warm. Figure out where your velocity is and whether or not you are showing pressure at the top. If you see pressure signs stop.

Now in 10 shots or less you probaly know where you need to load.

Then run a test loading 3 or 5 each (depending on your feeling on groups) .3 grains apart across your desired velocity range. (remember to make foulers) If you want you can use your chrono here, but if not, it shouldn't matter, you are tuning the load in a known range.

I use this data for an OCW test, (I don't like ladders, one flyer will mess with a ladder, and when you shoot your groups you invariabley get flyers.)

Now you've fired 40 rounds plus foulers and you should know where your load is. Typically with the bullets I shoot in my F-R rifles the seating depth is not overly critical, and most shoot really well in the .010 to .015 off the lands range. Load your new load there and shoot some groups, if it's good, then good, or you can try to tweak the group size with seating depth. (though with a hunting or sporting stock on a bopod or bags if your are shooting under .5MOA you are probably at the limits of you/your rig)

Two maybe 3 days at the range, if you aren't reloading at the range, if you are you can do this in a couple of hours.

 

[ireload2]

Scholly
You were complaining about the wide range of data found for this round and you have admitted that you are using an ancient small ring Mauser. You don't have many posts here and you appear to be soliciting data from total strangers of unknown background and abilities.
There is data for the M70 and M98 rifles in some manuals but it would not seem appropriate for your rifle. I think most people are willing to share but someone that has a modern M70 Winchester push feed might give you data that is too hot for your rifle.

In some forums you find people with little experience asking for and getting data from others that have about 15 minutes of reloading experience and no one knows the difference.

You can sort of duplicate factory pressure by breaking down new rounds and loading the powder into the same brand once fired and resized brass.
Fire these reconstituted rounds and mike the pressure ring. Then load your hand loads into once fired brass of the same brand that was resized in the same die. Fire and mike the pressure ring. You can sneak up on the same pressure ring measurement. It might be better than flying blind.
Some of the guys at gunboards forums shoot military matches with their 6.5X55s. You can check what they use for powder.

Fair point ... I know I have to do the work up ... I was hoping save a bit of time starting with some of the pet loads folks on the thread are willing to share.

 

[Homerange]

I'll second ireload2's comments.
Up until recently you could still buy surplus military Swedish Mausers in 6.5 x 55 and these are well know for the weaker actions than the 98's, hence much reload data is somewhat wimpy in modern actioned rifles.

Stoke with care.

 

[joshb]

I've been reloading for an M38 Swede. 120 AMAX and H100V.

 

[Scholly]

Thank you for all the feedback on this post. To ireload2: great suggestion, I pulled the bullets from 5 of my new S&B rounds and measured the components:

Powder - No clue what it is - 46.5 Grn
Bullet - Flat base spitzer - 131 grn

I reloaded 5 of my once fired brace using the S&B powder - will mark and use them to compare my work up loads. I am working through a set of loads (each with a 5 shot string) . Based on my research, I am going with IMR 4350 doing the work up in increments starting at 44.0 Grn ... now if only the weather would cooperate!

 

[jlow]

Try this... It works for me.

I shoot F-TR, there are a whole lot of us using powder and bullet combinations for which there is no load data. Take for instance the Berger 200 Hybrid, in Lapua Palma Brass running Varget or H4895 or N140 or (insert powder)

Last month Berger introdeced a brand new 200grain bullet for F class shooters, no data what so ever out there.

What I do know when I start with I know that there is a MV that has worked for other people with a 200gr bullet, kind of like you do with your rifle.

Pick a powder you know will work (sounds like one of the 4350s from the above posts)

Now load 10 rounds pick a starting point from the loading tables and load 2 each .5gr apart, and load 5 exrtas at your low starting point. Now shoot them over a chrono. Shoot the 5 extras to foul and warm. Figure out where your velocity is and whether or not you are showing pressure at the top. If you see pressure signs stop.

Now in 10 shots or less you probaly know where you need to load.

Then run a test loading 3 or 5 each (depending on your feeling on groups) .3 grains apart across your desired velocity range. (remember to make foulers) If you want you can use your chrono here, but if not, it shouldn't matter, you are tuning the load in a known range.

I use this data for an OCW test, (I don't like ladders, one flyer will mess with a ladder, and when you shoot your groups you invariabley get flyers.)

Now you've fired 40 rounds plus foulers and you should know where your load is. Typically with the bullets I shoot in my F-R rifles the seating depth is not overly critical, and most shoot really well in the .010 to .015 off the lands range. Load your new load there and shoot some groups, if it's good, then good, or you can try to tweak the group size with seating depth. (though with a hunting or sporting stock on a bopod or bags if your are shooting under .5MOA you are probably at the limits of you/your rig)

Two maybe 3 days at the range, if you aren't reloading at the range, if you are you can do this in a couple of hours.

LOL! Petty much what I just did with my 30” FTR barrel with 185 Juggs.

I was actually even slightly cheaper than you as I shot the first 3 fouler with cheap 175 SMK pulled bullets in Win cases at min charge of Varget and only shot 6 rounds of the Juggs in Lapua case 0.5 grains apart. I figured fouling is only to put powder down the barrel and I don’t need Berger/Lapua to do this, just the same powder… Min charge also save my barrel. Pretty much all points of MV vs. charge weight on the regression line.

Used QL to find node, next time out shot the OCW with 3 rounds at each powder weight 0.3 grain apart, found the best group (they all shot less than 0.5 MOA…), reloaded at the range and added 2 rounds to the two best group and I was done.

 

[Scholly]

Nice going jlow ... my day was not quite as good as that! I loaded up a total of twenty rounds: 5 in once fired brass with the original S&B powder charges ... the focused on trying to replicate FPS with IMR 4350 ... NO WAY - NO HOW!

The Reloads with the factory powder pretty much performed as the new factory loads ... just south of 2850, no primer issues, no sticky case on extractions. As the factory load was right at 46 grain of mystery powder, I loaded 5 round sets starting at 44.0, 44.5, 45.0 and 45.5 of IMR 4350 ... No problems at 44.0 ... but low V at 2650. 44.5 got up to 2700 ... but primers started flowing back on the FP. 45.0 got up to 2780 ... but all five round showed signs of over pressure ... i did not shoot the 45.5 grn loads!.

Looks like IMR 4350 will not duplicate the S&B factory load ... Looking at the Nosler #7 manual ... the only powder listed with similar weight and speed is "Hunter". I am going to get a pound of that or N560 and give it a try.

Note: Hornady 3rd edition lists a 129Grn Bullet load using IMR 4350 at 46.0 Grn ... good luck with that!

 

[Brians356]

Here's what Steve Gash wrote (in part) a year ago in Shooting Times (FWIW):

Pressure limits for the 6.5x55mm Swedish have been a source of some confusion for American shooters for decades. Popular wisdom has it that the Mauser 94s and 96s are “significantly weaker” and must not be used with the heavier loads intended for “modern” bolt actions, such as the Mauser M98 and American-made Winchesters, Remingtons and Rugers.

Be that as it may, in Europe, the round is certified by C.I.P. at a maximum pressure of 55,114 psi, with proof loads listed at 125 percent of that, or 68,893 psi. All Swedish Mausers are proof tested (with one round) at 65,992 psi, and Swedish military ammunition was loaded to a modest 46,412 psi.

In the U.S., S.A.A.M.I. maximum pressure is listed as 51,000 psi, so all U.S. ammunition is completely safe in the Krag and M94 and 96 Mauser rifles, but it’s seriously underpowered in modern sporters. Handloaders for these rifles can improve ballistics considerably (more on that later).

A couple of quirks need to be considered when handloading the 6.5x55mm Swedish. First is pressure limits, which I addressed earlier. The dogmatic recommendation in most manuals to use milder loads in the Krag and Mauser 94 and 96 rifles to be on the safe side just makes sense.

Although Hornady used a Mauser M96 to develop its data, the manual states that maximum loads should be approached with care and cautions reloaders against “attempting high intensity loads in either the Mauser or Krag actions.”

Speer takes a different approach. In Reloading Manual #14, Speer has two sets of 6.5x55mm Swedish data. One is labeled for “Military Actions,” the other for “Strong Commercial Actions” that “approach pressures of 58,000 psi.” This is in the same class as “6.5×55 ammunition loaded in Europe.”

The second consideration is cartridge length.
...

Read more:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/hunting-ammo/a-metric-marvel-6-5x55-swedish-mauser/#ixzz4MLAw991h
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