6.5x47 Flattened Primers.....Is this common?

[minnesotamulisha]

I started load development on Friday. I started with Varget at 34 grains and went up to 36.1 in .3 grain increments. I used virgin Lapua Brass which was full length sized with a Redding Benchrest FL die. Using CCI 450 Magnum Small Rifle primers. They were topped with Berger 130 Hybrids, all loaded .020" off the lands.

Berger said to use the same info as the 130 VLD. They provided load data for this bullet and the starting charge was 32 and max was listed at 35.8. Being I am shooting these out of a 22" barrel, I opted to start at 34 instead of 32. Also, I bought this barreled action used and the previous owner was shooting 140 Hunting VLDs over 35 grains of Varget.

I had sporadic primer flattening all the way up to 36.1. I loaded five rounds at each charge, and I would get 2-3 flattened primers with each load. There was no ejector marks or stiff bolt lift and no other signs that would leave me to believe that I was too hot.

I was having chrony issues and only recorded one shot, which was at 36.1 grains, and the speed was 2692 fps.

For you 6.5x47 guys, are you seeing flattened primers? How concerned should I be?

 

[dkhunt14]

It is possible that you have a hot batch of Varget. Varget may be a little too fast for that heavy of bullet. It would probably do better with a lighter bullet. Most that I know use H4350 for the 6.5x47. The Hybrid should be shorter bearing then the VLD and the load for the VLD should be good. If the brass is new sometimes pressure doesn't show up as good. It takes a couple of firings to get brass to fill the chamber. Matt

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

I had major pressure problems in my non-bushed Remington 700 6.5X47. Similar grains 34-36 of Varget which is not excessive. TIGHT bolt, every primer flattened.

I now have a BAT MB actioned 6.5X47 and it handles everything with aplomb. 38 grains of Varget with 123 scenars and every primer looks good.

 

[JohnKielly]

Virgin brass is not necessarily a snug fit in your chamber. You might be seeing the primers backing out early in the firing sequence, then it being peined over when the case sets back.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

I started load development on Friday. I started with Varget at 34 grains and went up to 36.1 in .3 grain increments. I used virgin Lapua Brass which was full length sized with a Redding Benchrest FL die. Using CCI 450 Magnum Small Rifle primers. They were topped with Berger 130 Hybrids, all loaded .020" off the lands.

Berger said to use the same info as the 130 VLD. They provided load data for this bullet and the starting charge was 32 and max was listed at 35.8. Being I am shooting these out of a 22" barrel, I opted to start at 34 instead of 32. Also, I bought this barreled action used and the previous owner was shooting 140 Hunting VLDs over 35 grains of Varget.

I had sporadic primer flattening all the way up to 36.1. I loaded five rounds at each charge, and I would get 2-3 flattened primers with each load. There was no ejector marks or stiff bolt lift and no other signs that would leave me to believe that I was too hot.

I was having chrony issues and only recorded one shot, which was at 36.1 grains, and the speed was 2692 fps.

For you 6.5x47 guys, are you seeing flattened primers? How concerned should I be?

When you say flattened primers how bad are you talking about .. Are their any other signs of pressure?? If not I wouldn't pay it any attention.. I've showed ejector marks and tight extraction within the mid 36gr area but have went all the way up to 37.5gr with Varget... That 6.5 case is just a beast!! Just keep rocking on!! Their should be a good load around 36.7gr and 37.6 with 140gr hybrids if you can handle them pressures.. You shouldn't be showing pressure signs at 36gr with 130gr bullets... Be sure you down bump the shoulder no more than .002... I even do all my initial load work touching the lands because if a case will not blow up there you won't ever have to worry about it..

 

[minnesotamulisha]

John, I am using Virgin brass, but I have FL sized it before I began loading, just to be consistent.

ShootSTraight, other than the flat primers, I see no other signs of pressure. No bolt lift, ejector marks, or extraction issues.

I wonder if even though I FL sized, the brass is still a bit on the short side when measured from the case head to the datum on the shoulder. I have no way of measuring this currently.

There is plenty of room left in the case and I'm sure I could add another 2 grains before feeling the Varget crunch. At 2.1575 to the Ogive (approx 2.700 COAL I think), I'm not seated very deep in the neck of the brass.

 

[/VH]

Yep,............I'm betting what JohnKielly wrote is your issue.

 

[jlow]

When you say FLS, did you size the neck? I mean did you expand the neck? Virgin Lapua brass as a rule tend to have a lot of neck tension – something in the region of 3 thousands and that can cause some pressure problems. How did your bullet seat, did it take a lot of pressure. Generally speaking, people expand new Lapua brass with a mandrel before reloading. However, if you are not seeing other pressure signs such as ejector marks, hard bolt lifts, or pieced primers, you are probably still safe.

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Jlow- I used a Redding Benchrest FL die with the expander ball. After chamfering the ID of the neck, the bullets seated fine and I didn't think they seated hard at all.

 

[FatBoy]

Check the measurements of a fired and unfired case and see how much HS you're running. My bet is HS is a but much. I run .004" on my 47L as when I run. 002" I don't get consistent bolt closing which appears to give me some pretty excessive vertical starting at 600y. When I run them with more HS I don't have tested issue.

 

[Dos XX]

What diameter is your chamber neck? Or, what diameter are the necks on your fired brass compared to a loaded round?

Depending on your chamber neck diameter, the necks may be too thick.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

John, I am using Virgin brass, but I have FL sized it before I began loading, just to be consistent.

ShootSTraight, other than the flat primers, I see no other signs of pressure. No bolt lift, ejector marks, or extraction issues.

I wonder if even though I FL sized, the brass is still a bit on the short side when measured from the case head to the datum on the shoulder. I have no way of measuring this currently.

There is plenty of room left in the case and I'm sure I could add another 2 grains before feeling the Varget crunch. At 2.1575 to the Ogive (approx 2.700 COAL I think), I'm not seated very deep in the neck of the brass.

If you can post up pics of what you are saying is flat primers... It may just be what all us 6.5Lapua shooters see with our guns as well..

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Will do. Should have them posted up tonight. Thanks.

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Here is a picture of the primers. Starting from the left, the charges begin at 34, then 34.3, 34.6, 34.9, 35.2, 35.8,and 36.1. Primers started flattening at 34.6, but only one or two. Then up at 35.8, there are three, and at 36.1, just two.

Again, this is the only signs of pressure that I see. No ejector or extractor marks, and no hard bolt lift.

There are only four rounds of a few due to light primer strikes. This is another, separate issue this will address later. I'm thinking because of the magnum primers and virgin brass. I will find out next firing.

 

[myownman]

I know every rifle is different, but I would think you would be getting faster speeds than that, if you were running hot varget with 130's. My varget load is 37.5gr with the 140 hybrids.

 

[noload]

The primers don't look that flat.. If your pockets are still tight, and the bases grow only a thou.from New size you should be good. I suspect excessive HS with the new cases.. hense the firing pin hit the primer causing the case to go forward ..then slam back at ignition hitting the bolt face and primer. Do compare base dimensions with a new case.

 

[SG4247]

I would say nearly all my 6.5 x 47 primers are flattened from all three rifles.

Not an issue for me as long as they stay in the Brass and don't have holes blown thru the center.

Common issue with the cartridge in my experience.

I have had the best luck with CCI #41 and 450s.

Firing pin bore to pin clearance will have a significant impact on the piercing issue, if or when it arises.

Flattened is not really a concern for me. I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[savagedasher]

Virgin brass is not necessarily a snug fit in your chamber. You might be seeing the primers backing out early in the firing sequence, then it being peined over when the case sets back.

I second that Larry

 

[Mega]

Not a real great photo and not close enough to have a good look, maybe I'm going blind but I don't see any sign of a flat primer. Besides, I don't believe what a primer looks like after it's been fired is any real true indication of anything.

Measure your cases with a micrometer before and after to see how the case is affected.

The loads and velocity in my view for 130gr bullets is way too low. Berger reloading data especially for this calibre is a joke, they are being way too cautious.

For a 130gr you should be seeing about 2,800fps at least, typically around 2,850fps using around 37.5gr of Varget but it depends on the rifle as to the load to achieve the velocity from a 24" to 29" barrel.

37.5gr of Varget in my three rifles is not a hot load, far from it. Using CCI BR4's they don't look any different from unfired other than the firing pin strike. I have also used 450's and they don't look any different either other than the ES & SD figures aren't as good. Accuracy wise the BR4's are more consistant. I only shoot out to 600 yards.

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Here are some better pictures. I don't have the head space measuring tool for the 6.5 yet, is there another way I can measure from the case head to the datum to compare new vs fired cases? I do have the tool for measuring 308, would that work? Would measuring the OAL of the case work? I appreciate all the information, thanks!