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6.5 x 47 with light bullets

Hey Guys, I'm building a 6.5 x 47L with the intention of ending up with a Coyote/Deer rig. It will be a short barrel(18-20") suppressed rig.
I would like to run the 85-90g bullets on the Coyotes, and the 120's on Deer. I can find very little data on the lightweight bullets. Most of you guys run heavier bullets and long barrels. I take 99% of my game from 0-300 yds. Any data or comments appreciated. Thanks
 
Some data on the Lapua site down to 100 gr. bullets. All data with Vihtavuori powder.
http://www.lapua.com/view_reload_tables.php?relodata=5&relocaliber=54&lang=en&siteid=products
 
jwcrabb said:
Hey Guys, I'm building a 6.5 x 47L with the intention of ending up with a Coyote/Deer rig. It will be a short barrel(18-20") suppressed rig.
I would like to run the 85-90g bullets on the Coyotes, and the 120's on Deer. I can find very little data on the lightweight bullets. Most of you guys run heavier bullets and long barrels. I take 99% of my game from 0-300 yds. Any data or comments appreciated. Thanks

I have the bullets.
 
This is what drives me nuts.You have a common cartridge with a simple question and no answers .Someone has to know whether you can dip below a 100 grain bullet.
 
Why couldn't you just make sure the smith cuts a short free bore or may have an accuracy issue. But I doubt it that caliber will shoot anything 1/2 moa that I have tried good luck
 
Thanks for the attempts to help. I realize this is odd question for this site because of the light bullets. Really, the 6 x 47 would probably serve my needs better. What I was really looking for was a repeater with .243 performance in one of these shorter improved cases, without difficult case prep like neck turning. Oh yea, in a 18" barrel. Maybe i'm asking for too much?
 
jwcrabb, Some light bullet info in the following link; e.g. 85 gr. Sierra with 40 gr. IMR 8208XBR.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3757719.0
 
My first thought on reading this was ... Are there any 6.5 bullets that weigh under 100gn? Even 100gn is VERY light for the calibre. Most people here in the UK either use 6.5X47L as an out and out match cartridge or as a dual-purpose match and small deer species number. It's ideal for our small native roe deer and still man enough for some of the larger breeds. I'm sure these rifles are also used for 'foxing', our main varmint species, and I'd think people will mostly use bullets like the 120gn A-Max which has a reputation for being very frangible and fast expanding at decent terminal velocities. (I can email a guy I know who wins Factory Sporter class in benchrest matches and also uses the same Accuracy International rifle chambered for 6.5X47 Lapua for extensive deer and fox shooting, if you want to know. We don't have coyotes here, a large dog fox being our nearest equivalent, much larger and tougher badgers out eating other wildlife and doing damage everywhere in the British countryside, but they have 100% legal protection thanks to our breed of bunny-huggers!)

For competition use, the lightest bullet most people shoot here is Lapua's 108gn Scenar, a very long design for its weight - same length as the 123gn Scenar and new 136gn Scenar-L give or take a few thou'. The 108 is used in Tactical, McQueens (sniper / 5-second exposure match) and Civilian Service Rifle comps in shorter distance stages. It's a fantastic bullet for 300 yard stages - light recoil, very accurate, and bucks the wind better than almost any competitor. The cartridge feeds very well from box magazines when loaded with this bullet too for use in these rapid fire / snap-shooting events. A lot of these guys use 20-inch or shorter barrels with sound moderators ('moddy' use is the norm now in the UK for most deerstalking and fox shooting practice). The cartridge is very well suited to 18-20 inch barrels, so you're on the right track there. Once you go below 22 inches you start to lose rather a lot of velocity, maybe 30 fps or more per inch of barrel.

Anyway, moving on, given loads data for the slightly larger case and powder charge .260 Rem for bullets like the 100gn Nosler Ballistic Tip, there is absolutely no reason why the 6.5X47L won't perform just as well, better in fact, with this class of bullet.

There are two issues - the bullet holding together in flight when shot from a fast twist barrel if it's built as a light jacket varmint design, and loads. The second simply shouldn't be an issue. Looking at the 85gn Sierra on the company's website (a new bullet on me I must admit, but I wonder if any have made it across to us anyway?), it's described as ideal for medium velocity 6.5s such as 6.5X55mm, so Sierra obviously expect it to stand up to some pretty high rotational speeds as that cartridge uses 1-7.5" twist. (You might think why not use a slower than 1-8" twist anyway with 120gn as your top bullet weight? A lot of lighter 6.5mm bullets need 1-8" as they're very long for weight, and if you consider using Barnes for deer, you'll definitely need it.) I would likewise expect the 100gn Ballistic Tip to stand up OK to a really fast spin rate.

So with that out of the way, what about loads? Anything recommended for the 100gn Nosler BT should work well (with lower charges) in the smaller 6.5X47L. Nosler lists loads for a fair width of burning rates for its 100g BT from AA2460 and H. VarGet to numbers in the 4350 class with IMR-4064 listed as 'most accurate'. Berger lists a smaller number of powders all slower burning than I'd expect for its 100gn BT Match (now discontinued, I notice) - Norma 203B, IMR-4007SSC, Ramshot Big Game, Alliant Re17, AA-2700, Viht N550, H4350, and Win760 (same as H414). Rather a lot of barrel-burning double-base or high energy numbers there too, only 4007 and H4350 as standard single-base jobs. What these two manuals say is that the powders that people use in 120-130gn match loads apparently work well too with 100 grain jobs.

Moving on, let's see what QuickLOAD suggests. With the 85gn Sierra HP, COAL has to be short at 2.500" to have any decent amount of case-neck gripping the bullet. Depending on what chamber throat you go for, it'd likely have to make a fair old jump into the rifling which will lower pressures and velocities.

Most of the powders recommended for .260 Rem in the manuals are too slow burning for this set up and they'd likely be inefficient and unsatisfactory, even compressed loads reducing pressures and resulting in partial charge burns. 4350-class powders only see 85-90% of the charge consumed in a 20-inch barrel. Even the 4895s and VarGet don't get the 99-100% I'd prefer, running at 94-96% burns. (This is without a long bullet jump effect either that would make the problem worse.)

As expected, QuickLOAD suggests faster burners would be fine, including the following:

IMR-3031, AA-2495, H322, H335, Ramshot X-Terminator and TAC, Alliant Re10x, Viht N130, N133, N140/540

Not everything shown in QuickLOAD as suitable works as hoped, but H322, 3031 and the Viht powders look good, TAC and H335 if you prefer ball powders. fill-ratios range from low 90% to slightly compressed loads. MVs are calculated as high 3100s to mid 3200s from a 20-inch barrel, but that assumes the chamber is throated for the bullet and its short 2.500" COAL.

Looking at the 100gn Ballistic Tip, the list is as before, but some of the faster burners such as Re10X start to fall short on velocity, while slightly slower burners now become viable although they still don't achieve a full 99-100% charge burn - add in the 4895s, Re15, VarGet and IMR-4064. Predicted MVs run from just below 3,000 fps for N140 to 3,068 for IMR-3031. This assumes a slightly longer COAL than with the 85 Sierra HP, 2.600 inches providing a reasonable amount of bullet shank in the case-neck.

If any of these powders and combinations appeal, PM me and I'll tell you what sort of loads QuickLOAD suggests and the usual warnings that apply
 
Actually, when I say we don't have varmints that run as big as coyotes, here's a topic that's just gone up on UKVarminting.com Forum - a 33lb dog fox.

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/22051-big-foxes/

I don't know how that compares to a full grown coyote, but it can't be too different? Note the sound moderators on all the rifles pictured. Our police almost insist on them now - it stops local residents taking fright and calling the police out needlessly. (A lot of our foxes are shot at night too with high-power lamps and predator calls, so it's not at all anti-social to use what's normally a noisy cartridge.)
 
I don't want to hijack your thread.... I'm just glad you asked the question because I am thinking of doing the same thing. I have a 6.5x47 with a 26" barrel. It is set up for 120gr bullets but I have some 85 gr Sierra HP and just wanted to have some fun on groundhogs at close range. I was thinking or hoping to get some speed and terminal performance out of it. I'm interested to see what is out there with this setup.
Bob
 
krktractor said:
… But I doubt it that caliber will shoot anything 1/2 moa that I have tried good luck

My "new" 6.5X47L on an XP action (built by the guys at LongRifles Inc) shoots Lapua FACTORY 100 gr. ammo into 3/10ths. ;D
 
deadwooddick said:
krktractor said:
… But I doubt it that caliber will shoot anything 1/2 moa that I have tried good luck

My "new" 6.5X47L on an XP action (built by the guys at LongRifles Inc) shoots Lapua FACTORY 100 gr. ammo into 3/10ths. ;D

But, presumably built for such bullets, and therefore throated suitably? Not that a really long jump into the leade always means poor accuracy. I got some excellent groups in a 6mm BR Norma rifle throated for 105/108gn class bullets from 55gn varmint types such as the Nosler Ballistic Tip. As well as the 8-inch twist and Norma version freebore, the barrel had had over 3,000 rounds down it and had a lot of erosion. The large bullet jumps lost me a lot of velocity over what others claim for varmint-throated 6BRs, and made it harder work to get bullets and powder combinations that shot to 6BR standards, but it did still work very well with some bullets.
 
Load data for 95 grain V max in my 6.5x47, 26 inch barrel, chambered for 123 grain Lapua Scenars, please work up to these, they are safe in my rifle.

CCi Magnum primers
Varget
41gr 3320 fps
41.5gr 3268
42gr 3313
42.5gr 3364
43gr 3407
Accuracy was reasonable.

Nosler 100 grain, Varget, CCI magnum primers

39gr 3080 fps
39.5 3111
40 3139
40.5 3168
41 3192
41.5 3225
41.7 3249
Accuracy sucked and I didn't persue it

The 95 gr V max are extremely destructive at those velocities, a friend of mine used them for prairie dog shooting, and described direct hits as red vapor!
 
I load 100 gr nosler ballistic tips for my son to shoot and they perform just as well as the 140 Bergers do which it is chambered for try varget start low and work up
 
krktractor said:
Why couldn't you just make sure the smith cuts a short free bore or may have an accuracy issue. But I doubt it that caliber will shoot anything 1/2 moa that I have tried good luck


Just because a bullet is lighter doesn't mean that it needs a shorter freebore. It's all in bearing surface length. IIRC the 6mm Sierra 75gr Varminter has a longer bearing surface than a Berger 105 vld.
 

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