6.5 x 47 Lapua and the Hornady 147 ELDM bullet - MV Test Data

[SG4247]

So, I was looking for an upgrade to my 600 yard F-open rifle. I ended up removing the old 6 x 47 barrel and screwing on a new custom 28" Kreiger 5R in 6.5 x 47. This is on a BAT B action.

Since load development would be fun on a new barrel, I decided to see if the high BC 147 ELDM would work with the little 47L case. Several folks said it wasn't worth trying, since the case volume is so small. Since most of my 6.5mm bullet experience is with Bergers and Scenars, this Hornady bullet might be worth some learning. If I could get the 147 ELD to run 2700 or faster, I figured this would be an improvement over my 6 x 47 load - for wind drift.

I prepped 100 new 47L brass by trim/chamfering and then neck turning to .012" wall thickness. I sized the neck ID to .263" with a mandrel and pin gauge. These are unfired.

Very little is published for loading information for this bullet and case combo in the manuals, or online. However, since I have QuickLoad, I found this tool to be very useful in a situation such as this.

I ran probably 50 different powders in QuickLoad and decided to start with RL-17, RL-16, H4350 and IMR 4350. All possible good choices, one would think, except that my freebore did limit the COAL to 2.753" with .020" clearance to the lands. Based on this, I filled each case to 100%, and loaded down from there in .2 grain steps. QuickLoad did indicate 39.7g was max pressure for RL-17. The other powders are so bulky, I was limited to the charge as shown @ 100% fill and still not close to max pressure.

Loaded up five of each powder, and grabbed the Magnetospeed and headed for the range.




RL-17 easily made 2700 plus, with 2789 at 100% fill with no pressure signs. H4350 was second best @ 2648, but the case fill was at 100%.

Next attempt would be to test H414, IMR 4451, and Hornady Superformance powders.

Same set up as previous test.



Great velocity from H414, and no where near 100% fill. This might have possibilities.

IMR 4451 was way off, not sure why...I thought it would work well in this case. It was way short of the QL prediction of 2714 fps.

Superperformance shot 10 rounds from 38.2 all the way up to 40 grains, very slow just under 2600 fps at 40 grains. Not a player, unless I add a lot of powder to the charge.

Next test, H414 with heavier charges, N550 and Winchester Stabal 6.5.

Same brass and methods as before. Loaded H414 beyond 39.7 maximum (according to QL) and N550 to max and Stabal to 40.0 grains. This time I loaded 6 each, just for fun.



Made 2808 fps with H414 @ 40.5 grains (39.7 max).

2773 fps with N550 at max charge of 39.2.

Stabal 6.5 is just that - stable. Almost no speed increase over a 1 grain powder charge increase! Very odd, but very accurate too. SD of 16! Too slow for my liking. Might be great in another combination.

So, my three best candidates for actual measured speed, at max pressure (according to QL) are:

RL-17 - 39.7 2789 fps

N550 - 39.2 2773 fps

H414 - 39.7 2742 fps

Very pleased with these results. Plan to shoot for some accuracy nodes next!

Hope this information is helpful to someone.

Caution: some loads noted here are potentially over safe maximum pressure!

 

[FeMan]

Very interesting. I was thinking about the same testing so thanks for doing some homework for me! I am interested to see what kind of accuracy you get. Do you have any idea what freebore you are running?

 

[Longrange57]

Have shot this caliber for many years. 147 ELDM...39.6-39.7 H4350....28 inch Kreiger 4 groove at 2740-2760 very accurate! .3 moa (62 group avg)...5 shot strings at 5-600 yards. I have occasionally shot really small (.5 gr at 600) but with absolutely no wind). Easily can do the same with 140 hybrid. I use the 147 due to our wind conditions and it seems to work well for me. My barrels started out on the slow side but after 150 rounds settled in on the velocity above. I can't speak for 1,000 yards but this combination does the job at mid range.

 

[SG4247]

I think the FB is roughly .160”.

I dont think it will take 39.6-39.7 grains of H4350 without extending the throat a little. There is plenty of room for that, as it could easily be .100” longer throat and still have 2/3 of the neck engaged with the 147 ELDM bullet.

 

[Longrange57]

I think the FB is roughly .160”.

I dont think it will take 39.6-39.7 grains of H4350 without extending the throat a little. There is plenty of room for that, as it could easily be .100” longer throat and still have 2/3 of the neck engaged with the 147 ELDM bullet.

I'm currently running .208 inch

 

[Drop Port]

Your FB is way too short for optimal performance of the 147 @ 2.753"

I'm almost .100" longer oal with a 140 Hybrid

 

[linebaugh]

Appreciate your posting. Just chambered up a 6.5x47 and the plan is to start with 142 LR accubonds for hunting... waiting on bottom metal. You are kind of right in my ballpark so I am hoping for others to chime in. I spec'd my reamer out with .194 FB.

 

[Longrange57]

With .208 FB my coal is 2.815 and seated just above neck shoulder junction. I wanted this FB so I could use shorter bullets. I actually shoot 130 vld's with same rifle but not much neck holding bullet.

 

[Drop Port]

Appreciate your posting. Just chambered up a 6.5x47 and the plan is to start with 142 LR accubonds for hunting... waiting on bottom metal. You are kind of right in my ballpark so I am hoping for others to chime in. I spec'd my reamer out with .194 FB.

I run a .198" your .194 combined with barrel length will give you enough to potentially hit the upper node.

 

[SG4247]

The 147 ELD was touching the lands at 2.773” on a new clean chamber. The bullet bearing surface is a little below the shoulder junction. So, Im thinking this is the standard 47L PG&T reamer which is about .160” FB.

How much could I gain by moving the throat out .030” to say .190”?

 

[Spj0928]

I have a 28" Kreiger 4 groove 7.5 twist and started playing with some loads with RL 16 and 150 Smk. My speeds were from 2700 to 2760 with no pressure signs. Now plan to stretch it out and do a ladder test at 300 yrds also see if groups hold up.

 

[Longrange57]

The 147 ELD was touching the lands at 2.773” on a new clean chamber. The bullet bearing surface is a little below the shoulder junction. So, Im thinking this is the standard 47L PG&T reamer which is about .160” FB.

How much could I gain by moving the throat out .030” to say .190”?

4247...if .030 gets you above the donut, you may be ok. If you plan to shoot long heavy bullets .208 FB would probably be better. If you plan to shoot lighter bullets 123/130 stay with what you have. I have also seen many do well with the lighter faster stuff! I personally have a rifles set up for both.

 

[SG4247]

So I tried RL-17 and what I thought might be a node for N550. Apparently, I was wrong on the N550 node.

RL-17 shoots decent at 300 yards at 39.0 gr and maybe 39.8 gr.


Might run a full OCW test on N550 next...

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Not to derail the thread, but figured I'd post a word of warning. From my own personal experience, and from watching it happen to other shooters on the line, those 147s can have integrity problems that will show late in 20rd strings on hot summer months; even at the velocities you're talking about.

Not surprised you're getting them to shoot though; accurate bullet, and a very appealing G7.

Wish you the best of luck!

 

[SG4247]

So, I ran the 147 ELDM bullet seating test this morning at 100 yards. 3 shots, from 005" jam to .025" off the lands, in .004" increments.

Chose med and high powder weights of 39.0 and 39.8 grains of Reloder 17, they showed promise earlier in charge weight testing.

Interesting results. Seemed to like jam at 39.8, both charges decent at -.004" off the lands, and then possibly .024" off the lands.

Keep in mind there was a nice gentle Oklahoma 5 mph cross wind, so I am shooting between gusts, and managing barrel temperature to the best of my abilities.





Any suggestions or interpetations are welcome. As I am not a target whisperer..

 

[CharlieNC]

I chased the heavy, higher BC allure as 6.5 bullets evolved over several years. Now I'm back to my original 123 Scenar because it provided best accuracy, and was capable of jumping up to a much higher velocity node which essentially overcomes the BC deficiency. What's available on paper doesn't a look ways translate into practice, as that pesky node may deter.

 

[SG4247]

Thanks for the comment Charlie, as I am a huge fan of the 123 Scenar. Burned 1000's of em.

But this load is currently inches inside the 123 Scenar at 600, at least in theory.

So, I do have some concern for accuracy using the 147 ELDM. I have personally never seen consistent accuracy from any Hornady bullets.

But for the 123 Scenar to equal this 147 ELDM RL-17 load at 39.8 grains (2800 fps) for wind drift, it would need to go 3450 fps to be equal @ 600 yards and even faster at 3470 fps to be equal @ 1000 yards.

I could not get the 6mm 105 Berger Hybrid to run 3250 from this case (in a 28" 6x47) so, I see no path for the 123 to go 3450.

BC is forever, so I remain optimistic!

 

[CharlieNC]

I stopped at 140gr evaluating the Eldm and Rdf, and at the accuracy nodes the 123 Scenar exhibited 10% more wind sensitivity for me. I considered this insignificant vs the accuracy difference, and the width of the node and velocity before onset if excess pressure dictate what is actually achievable. My thoughts and objectives were in sync with yours, but the velocity at the accuracy nodes did not permit implementation. Hopefully you can get there.

 

[kyreloader]

39g at 2.130”

 

[G&W]

I settled on 39.2 grains of RL-16 with the 147 ELD-M in my x47 last year as my long range load. Loaded to 2.765” and running around 2715. Maybe not as accurate as Berger’s during load work ups at 100 but the ELD’s are not bad and are always in stock locally as well as being quite a bit cheaper. I’m continually testing others but keep coming back to the 147’s and RL-16 for 1000 yards. Never had a problem with bullet blow up but I don’t shoot when it’s really hot here. Much too humid to be enjoyable.