6.5 Sherman
- Thread starter Arkrunner
- Start date
Do a search on Long Range Hunting. That is where the 6.5 Sherman was developed.
Can't say, never heard of it.
But I can testify to the ability of the 6.5 creedmoor.
It my choice for lite gun in 1k yard benchrest. Long barrell life, GREAT TINY TIGHT GROUPS at 1000, low recoil and easy to tune.
But I can testify to the ability of the 6.5 creedmoor.
It my choice for lite gun in 1k yard benchrest. Long barrell life, GREAT TINY TIGHT GROUPS at 1000, low recoil and easy to tune.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
I did a lot of research prior to choosing a 6.5 hunting cartridge. I found that many of the magnum type cases with large capacity were very inefficient. This results in more recoil from excessive powder burn to achieve an identical speed of a more efficient round.
I ended up settling on the 6.5 Remington Magnum. With a 26" barrel, it can do everything the 264 Win Mag and 6.5-300WSM are capable of, but it does it with a much smaller powder charge.
Reading on the 6.5 Sherman. Some guys are only getting 3000 fps with 140gr bullets while using 60gr of powder (H1000). It is capable of 3300 fps with around 64gr of powder. It is fast, but not very efficient when compared to the performance and case capacity of the 6.5 Rem Mag. The same can be said for the 264 Win Mag.
My father in law has a 6.5-300WSM. It can achieve speeds near 3200 fps with a 140gr bullet using 58+ gr of powder (RL17). Similar speeds are achieved using 60+ gr of slower burning powder. It also has a much larger case capacity than the 6.5 Rem Mag.
In my 6.5 Remington Magnum, I launch the 140gr Berger Hunting VLDs at 3209 fps from my 26" barrel while only using 52gr of RL17......and I have no pressure signs. Although I haven't pushed it any harder due to the fact that I found superb accuracy at that speed and am fully aware of how badly a fast 6.5 will burn a barrel, I believe the 6.5 Rem Mag is capable of 3250+ with 140gr bullets.
Recoil in my 6.5 Rem Mag is on par, or perhaps even less, than a standard 308 Win factory load using 150gr gullets. So I get laser flat trajectory, excellent accuracy, very low recoil, and longer barrel life than the bigger 6.5 magnums. And I'm doing it all with +/- 10gr less powder in each charge.
Another major benefit that some folks overlook when researching a fast 6.5 round is that the 6.5 Rem Mag is traditionally a short action round. This allows the use of long 140gr VLD type bullets to be seated out to the lands of the rifling with plenty of room left in the magazine. I have never experienced any feeding issues either.
Here is a picture of a group I fired with my 6.5 Remington Magnum using a Harris bipod lying prone on the ground at 300 yards. And yes, I do believe 3 shot groups are acceptable for big game hunting rifles since the rifle only holds 3 rounds in the magazine. Nothing to complain about.
I ended up settling on the 6.5 Remington Magnum. With a 26" barrel, it can do everything the 264 Win Mag and 6.5-300WSM are capable of, but it does it with a much smaller powder charge.
Reading on the 6.5 Sherman. Some guys are only getting 3000 fps with 140gr bullets while using 60gr of powder (H1000). It is capable of 3300 fps with around 64gr of powder. It is fast, but not very efficient when compared to the performance and case capacity of the 6.5 Rem Mag. The same can be said for the 264 Win Mag.
My father in law has a 6.5-300WSM. It can achieve speeds near 3200 fps with a 140gr bullet using 58+ gr of powder (RL17). Similar speeds are achieved using 60+ gr of slower burning powder. It also has a much larger case capacity than the 6.5 Rem Mag.
In my 6.5 Remington Magnum, I launch the 140gr Berger Hunting VLDs at 3209 fps from my 26" barrel while only using 52gr of RL17......and I have no pressure signs. Although I haven't pushed it any harder due to the fact that I found superb accuracy at that speed and am fully aware of how badly a fast 6.5 will burn a barrel, I believe the 6.5 Rem Mag is capable of 3250+ with 140gr bullets.
Recoil in my 6.5 Rem Mag is on par, or perhaps even less, than a standard 308 Win factory load using 150gr gullets. So I get laser flat trajectory, excellent accuracy, very low recoil, and longer barrel life than the bigger 6.5 magnums. And I'm doing it all with +/- 10gr less powder in each charge.
Another major benefit that some folks overlook when researching a fast 6.5 round is that the 6.5 Rem Mag is traditionally a short action round. This allows the use of long 140gr VLD type bullets to be seated out to the lands of the rifling with plenty of room left in the magazine. I have never experienced any feeding issues either.
Here is a picture of a group I fired with my 6.5 Remington Magnum using a Harris bipod lying prone on the ground at 300 yards. And yes, I do believe 3 shot groups are acceptable for big game hunting rifles since the rifle only holds 3 rounds in the magazine. Nothing to complain about.
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That's nice speed from a 26" barrel!
RL-17 is some freaky awesome powder that really produces with less volume than 'normal'.
I'm getting 3070 fps from 140JLK/61.5gr H1000 outta my 6.5SAUM 4s , 24" Bartlein 1:8.5
Just ran your load, 52.0 RL-17 in my QL parameters saved for my 6.5SAUM...looks real good. According to that data output, I should still be just under 60Kpsi @ 54.0 gr, and really making some speed!
Gonna stick with the H1000 @ 54Kpsi, and see just how far along this barrel will stretch before it's done...
Good shooting!
RL-17 is some freaky awesome powder that really produces with less volume than 'normal'.
I'm getting 3070 fps from 140JLK/61.5gr H1000 outta my 6.5SAUM 4s , 24" Bartlein 1:8.5
Just ran your load, 52.0 RL-17 in my QL parameters saved for my 6.5SAUM...looks real good. According to that data output, I should still be just under 60Kpsi @ 54.0 gr, and really making some speed!
Gonna stick with the H1000 @ 54Kpsi, and see just how far along this barrel will stretch before it's done...
Good shooting!
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Yeah RL17 burns hot so when you couple that with a large long bullet moving at over 3200 fps, the barrels don't last very long. Maybe 600-800 rounds before the throat is gone. That's just the nature of the fast 6.5s when you crank up the throttle on them. But as a big game hunting rifle, it's lucky if it sees 20-40 rounds per year to brush up on long range practice and then take game in the field.
I burned out my last 6.5 Rem Mag barrel pretty quick because I shot targets a lot, used it for varmint hunting, and shot a 1K bench rest match with it for fun (10 shot groups). That BR match was the last nail in the coffin. Barrel was getting so hot from relay sighters, then 10 shot groups, it finally had enough. Probably had 600 rounds on it when there was no chance of saving the barrel.
Learning from that experience, I shoot this one a lot less and when I do shoot it, I don't shoot more than 3 shots in a row before I let the barrel have some time to cool down a bit. Being more thoughtful to barrel heat this time around, I expect I will get at least 200 rounds extra on this barrel's life.
I burned out my last 6.5 Rem Mag barrel pretty quick because I shot targets a lot, used it for varmint hunting, and shot a 1K bench rest match with it for fun (10 shot groups). That BR match was the last nail in the coffin. Barrel was getting so hot from relay sighters, then 10 shot groups, it finally had enough. Probably had 600 rounds on it when there was no chance of saving the barrel.
Learning from that experience, I shoot this one a lot less and when I do shoot it, I don't shoot more than 3 shots in a row before I let the barrel have some time to cool down a bit. Being more thoughtful to barrel heat this time around, I expect I will get at least 200 rounds extra on this barrel's life.
Cool deal.
I just built a 2nd 6.5 SAUM 4s, a lighter weight version than my other one. Used a Rem Seven action from a factory .300SAUM, 22" #3 Hawk Hill 1:8.5, in an AWR stock with PTG DBM. Came out really nice, a tad over 8 lbs. locked & loaded. Easy peasy little killing rifle. Should be able to shoot it this weekend and won't be too fussy about making it shoot bugholes. So, hoping it goes quick, LOL
Sorry for sidetrack, OP!
For your pre-64, a 6.5-06 or AI would be an easy choice that would surely kick azz. But I'd still look into the .264WMag. Would be really cool to do a classic cartridge in a classic rifle, and with a nice wood handle...
Good luck!
I just built a 2nd 6.5 SAUM 4s, a lighter weight version than my other one. Used a Rem Seven action from a factory .300SAUM, 22" #3 Hawk Hill 1:8.5, in an AWR stock with PTG DBM. Came out really nice, a tad over 8 lbs. locked & loaded. Easy peasy little killing rifle. Should be able to shoot it this weekend and won't be too fussy about making it shoot bugholes. So, hoping it goes quick, LOL
Sorry for sidetrack, OP!
For your pre-64, a 6.5-06 or AI would be an easy choice that would surely kick azz. But I'd still look into the .264WMag. Would be really cool to do a classic cartridge in a classic rifle, and with a nice wood handle...
Good luck!
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Nothing wrong with the 6.5-06 AI. Good round and no work will need to be done on the bolt face, feed ramps, or magazine of the OP's pre '64
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I got my 6.5x280 Ackley back from my smith about 2 months ago. Still a long ways from being finished with my load testing, but I'm getting 3180 fps with 140 grain Berger Hunting VLD, H-1000, Federal 210M primer & Nosler brass; out of a 26" barrel. H-1000 is the only powder I've tested up to this point. My smith said that some of his customers have been very pleased with Retumbo in the 6.5x280 AI. The 6.5 Sherman is awesome, no doubt about it. But, I elected to go with the 6.5x280 AI to simplify my life a bit. Buy Nosler 280AI brass, neck it down, load it, done...
Can't argue with that logic, or those results!
I have a 6.5-06 AI and have spent some time discussing the Sherman (a long 6.5x280 AI) with Rich. Both cases are awesome, definitely among the most under appreciated 06 based LA hunting cases. With RL26 and some slow single base powders velocities over 3300 with 140s are achievable in a 26" tube. Every time someone asks to what should they rebarrel their 30-06, I point out the merit of these cases. The real gamechanger for me is the Nosler 280 AI brass, with the shortened SAAMI spec brass a guy can size it to standard 06 AI dimensions with the exception of length. If I had to do it over again I would use a reamer setup specifically for this brass when neck sized to 6.5, and 6.5x280 AI SAAMI dies. I love not fire forming, but trimming off .035" is a step I'd like to eliminate, and pushing the shoulder back ~.015" is unnecessary. At this point I'm all about shooting with my spare time not prepping brass, as mentioned bolt faces, feed lips, bolt stops / action length, and magazine length are already set up, so this could be a very smooth transition to ultra magnum performance with increased barrel life.
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I saw the genius of Rich & Bigngreen's design endeavors for the 6.5 Sherman Short & knew this was what I wanted for my wildcat. Savage 11 donor, McMillan stock w/Whidden V-block, PTG bottom metal, & a Bartlein Light Palma 32" w/brake. Now I've been one of those 6.5Guys way before it was cool & I saw how the design of this case was on a new level of efficiency. I opted for as long a barrel as I could get at 30.5" & tbreaded. The jury is still out as to whether or not it's worth the extra barrel length with the short powder column of a modified SAUM case. But that's ok, I can always have it cut off or set back & rechambered. So far top end has beencome from 62gr of RL26 & 140 Hybrids @ 3358'. Going to give some HexBN a try on the hybrids to see if I can't eek out a little more velocity. 3259' was with 60.5grs of 26 & .5moa. I'm thinking with the hbn I could get over 3300' with the 140's but where the hbn really interests me is in the heavy 6.5 bullets like the 150 & 160 Matrix. Looks like I'll just have to do more load work up & testing. Lucky me!!
I shoot tiny groups with my 6.5 sherman with 140 vld using 65.4 gr n570 at 3320 fps through a 28" Krieger. You cant do better than that.
7mm and larger diameter...?
It’s a 3 1/2 year old thread. 6.5 was included in the big stuff section when this was started.
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