6.5 Grendell reamer specs WANTED / HELP

[dantec]

After to have speak several times with the Alexander Arms Company at the Shot Show, I have never get the reamer specs and/ or reamer drawing

So the question IS : Who can share with the drawing of the 6.5 Grendell reamer ?

I find really strange that seems very difficult to get a reamer drawing specilay when the company who have design this caliber, very close the 6.5x39 DTC !!!design some year ago ) not interesting to share reamer drawing

Actually I have fresh cases, realoding dies, the test barrel, the Sako action with PPC bolt face but not the reamer drawing so no way to order a reamer and no way to make any test

good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[Cheechako]

Dantec

If you have the brass you are going to use, take some careful measurements and use them to spec your reamer. Or, if you use someone like Dave Kiff, send him a few cases and tell him what sort of tolerances you want. Dave understands these things better than most shooters. I wouldn't trust a factory reamer spec because you don't know what they are basing their dimensions on or whether they are talking "match" or "factory" chamber.

Ray

 

[dantec]

Cheechako

thanks but I can do that easy I have a fulls hop include a optical comparator and I works with trust with JGS, PPG and Dave Manson

I am intresting by the original specs to be able to check them and perhaps make some modifications, tighter chamber )

good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[chrisj]

NOBODY will make you a reamer! All of the manufacturers of reamers have spoken with Bill Alexander and have agreed not to make a 6.5 Grendel reamer. I had one made for a single shot bolt action a while back from Dave Kiff. I had the first bolt action reamer with tighter tolerances than an AR-15 reamer. After I got one...dave agreed not to make any more. If you need confirmation on this... Contact Arne Brennan @ Competitionshootingsports.com. or go to 65grendel.com. Bill wants to corner the market on this one. Not sure what he promised these tool makers so that they wouldn't make reamers. I just sold my reamer, but could kick myself in the ass for doing so. The cartridge in a SS bolt gun comes real close to a 260 with 12-15 grains less powder and far superior accuracy. If anyone really wants a 6.5 Grendel bolt action...I made up 2 identical barreled actions. I would let one go.



cmg729j@aol.com

 

[Cheechako]

chrisj

So does that mean that if you want a barrel for the Grendl you have to have Bill make it? What if you made some minor changes to the shape or dimensions? It would seem to me that a good gunsmith who can make reamers would find a market here. Or is it illegal for an individual to make a reamer? I have made a few reamers myself and it's not that much work for a good machinist. Also, it seems to me that this would put a real damper on Grendel sales. I remember when the Rem 300 UM first came out and Rem would not sell brass for it, only loaded ammo. It set that cartridge back several years. I'm not a businessman and maybe I just don't understand these things.

Ray

 

[dantec]

Ok

If the Alexander arms want to keep the monopoly I am very happy for us, but I really doesnt know how they will get sucess by this way

I dont understand why after to have meet two time the Alexander Arms compy, To have send more than sevreal mails and one fax, after to have try to call the Alexander Arms company I have never sucess to get a CLEAR answer and even a drawing of the reamer, specilay because just right now, there is any serious study, already publish ) of the real pressure chamber and my aim is just to built a pressure barrel and make pressure/accuracy test !!!

Reamer making is not a monopoly I have a full tooling shop with 3 grinding machine and one center grind machine so I can produce any reamer I need or want IF any US maker want to make me one original that perhaps not he same story IF the raemer drawing is not name 6.5 Grendell I am closely sure than making an improve close will be not a problem to produce .

lapua case : If Alexander Arms want to be the only dealer of the 6.5 Grendell case I wish them a lot of happyness with the nighmare to export something from USA and single point distribution will transform quick the Grendell in SSK caliber, a well know name but a very confidential sale volume

rifle making, IF Alexander Arms want to keep the monopoly of rifle making why not, but that not the best respice to increase ammo sale, made in Finland by Lapua ) and increase component sale and for EC market sale volume will be near 0 .

I really think that the best way to make money is to get a monopoly on Lapua case making and get a % on each case sale and loaded ammo

SO I have get a reamer drawing copy, thanks for the print send dear XXXXX ), I will reverse engineering and a full study of the reamer/chamber/case on a CAD system and will publish a clone of the reamer chamber drawing witch will be 101% compatible with the 6.5 Grendell, by the same way 300 Whisper is still a monopoly but 30/221 Fireball is not a monopoly caliber and is use free .

last point several year ago when I have design a 6.5x39 Imp cartridge, JGS register with drawing and date ) for a shooter in Texas who wanted to shoot metallic silhouette with his AR15 and when I have send him all the technical informations and all the chamber drawing I have, I have make any trouble to share my work, but perhaps I doesnt know the respice

how to became rich

good shooting and wait to see my new accuracy 6.5x39 DTC IMP30 design wich will be a free to use reamer design

DAN TEC

 

[chrisj]

I agree 100% with you guys. The monopoly thing really sucks! WOLF will soon be selling factory Ammunition in 6.5 Grendel. My understanding is that the brass is Boxer primed and reloadable. I am not sure of the quality, but at the price it will be offered at, I don't think it is Lapua brass. As far as having a Very similar Reamer made by one of the top reamer suppliers...they won't make anything close to the Grendel. Like I said before...Alexander Arms must have promised them something or threatened them with legal action. I love the cartridge, but this whole thing is such a turn-off to it. I keep thinking of switching to a 6.5 BR improved or 260 AI held short to use 250 brass. Who knows. I have Grendel brass if someone needs a piece or 2 to make a reamer.

Chris

 

[dantec]

I doesn t want to have a fight with Alexander Arms but I am tired to loose time and wait for ghosts, even if I know that making stuff is a great time killer, the minimum request is perhaps to answer to the mails and at phone specialy after two meeting at the Shot show one each Shot Show last two years, yes is yes No is NO

I have no clear answer from AA and I wait since more than two years now, making a clone of the reamer is not a law problem I doesn t use the Grendell name or make money with ...

DON T FORGET than some years ago I have design something very very close to the Grendell design, JGS register ), this design, all informations ) was send in the US, TX ) to a shooter after a request on a internet board and after ...............;no answer even not a thank

Now formed case in 6.5 Grendell are available and perhaps ammo, need to be CIP register in Europe to be legal for sale ) so I want to test fire 6.5 Grendell

I will publish a reamer design free, 6.5x39 DTC IMP 30° ) to use, any maker you want even if I prefer work with PPG, JGS and DAVE MANSON ) just in the aims

to shoot for myself
to let other shooter shoot to if they want to shoot with a 6.5 PPC imp design and have fun .

good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[Aussie_bob]

This is the first i have ever heard of a 6.5 grendell what case is it based on etc would like to see a Pic or dimensional drawings.

 

[Forum Boss]

The case is based on a necked-up 6PPC, which was invented by Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell. Lou experimented with a 6.5 PPC wildcat many years ago. The parent cartridge for that was the 220 Russian.,Lapua is now producing 6.5 Grendel brass so you don't need to start with 220 Russian).

Read: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek027.html

The fact that the 6.5 Grendel was derived from well-known wildcats makes us wonder about the reamer issue. I can see how a company can copyright or trademark a name, but that doesn't mean that somebody else can't build a similar round and call it 6.5 Palmisano, or ".264 Grendel" for that matter.

I'll see if I can get one of the reamer companies to share a print. But frankly, all you need to do is neck up a 6PPC. Alexander Arm's round does appear to have more body taper than your typical 6PPC. This is probably to enhance feeding in AR-style rifles. See photo:

 

[dantec]

my design made in the end of the 90's imp the PPC as a Gibbs design body lenght increase, shorter neck to ratio under 1 cal to get max case volume.

In just neck up 6.5 or even 7 mm PPC, I agree than the original designer have make a 6.5 and from memory the Wichita company had built a 7 PPC for pistol shooting

from my point of view of the real way to make money, the monopoly on ammo and component is the only way, try to get monopoly on chambering job or in rifle byuilding is a great loose of time, because make a clone is easy, noy very easy but fat to be not impossible ) even if fire forming is always possible, produce top quality case and ammo and get a % on sale is perhaps more easy and a better way to make money .

remember the story of the 300 Whisper, you want to order a 300 Whisper reamer or die answer is NO please check with SSK, so can I get a 30/211 answer is yes no monopoly on 30/211 !!!!!

I have loose time, energy and money to try to contact Alexander Arms and get serious answer without any sucess, Mister B A is not available at phone ..... send a fax ...., we have not received the mailssssss ) so that clear I make a compatible chamber design .

last point it s seem than there is several chamber, from broad to br tight ) design, BUT to open market to the ROW, rest of World ) ammo and design need to be CIP register to import so If somebady can explain mee how to CIP register a caliber with confidential datas with diffrent chamber specs ...I will be happy to understand

I will publish soon a article on 6.5x39 IMP 30°with all drawings and datas able to let shoot this small cartridge

good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[chrisj]

A 6.5 grendel is not a necked up 6ppc. The shoulder is moved forward, and enough so that you can't just open the neck to 6.5 and fireform. you will need to form like a Dasher with the false shoulder. Capacity of a grendel is more than that of a ppc case. I fit the same amount of powder in my 6.5 Grendel as I did in my 6mm BR.

Chris

 

[dantec]

6.5 Grendell is a improved 6.5 PPC " à la Gibbs " with shoulder location change to increase body lenght and decrease neck lenght, very close the 6 BRX I agree )

forming is not problem because case are available from AA, only problem is to get/find a reamer, but problem will solve quick

good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[Aussie_bob]

So if you want more powder capacity why not just 6.5BR or 6.5BRX.
But if you can already buy cases put your desired projectile in the case and make your reamer to suit.
And while we are on the subject why doesn't Lapua make 6mmPPC cases Sako has them so who makes them for Sako.

 

[dantec]

for information that the answer of Mister Arne to my request of 6.5 Grendell specs, that a very interesting reading .

DAN TEC,

To clarify the situation for everyone, you have held out your services to CIP the cartridge in France. I have indicated in a couple of messages to you,as I was permitted to) that Alexander Arms has agreed for NAMMO,parent company of Lapua, Vihtavouri and Bofors) to produce the 6.5 Grendel in Europe and NAMMO will be taking the cartridge through CIP approval.

Given NAMMO's involvement in bringing the cartridge to market, I believe,and I am sure others will as well) that it would be proper and fair to give them this opportunity in Europe. In addition, Alexander Arms has also entered into agreement with Wolf ammunition who will be releasing multiple ammunition loadings. Therefore, two major ammunition makers will be producing 6.5 Grendel ammunition in addition to the ammunition produced by Alexander Arms. Like it or not, NAMMO,Lapua), Wolf and Alexander Arms producing ammunition takes the 6.5 Grendel out of any world of being a propritary or wildcat cartridge. The commercialization of the 6.5 Grendel will become even more solid as other rifle makers announce production models of rifles chambered in 6.5 Grendel.

You may have chatted with Bill Alexander at the SHOT Show a time or two,strange I have never met you during the last two shows and I was in the Alx Arms booth) and you may have emailed him a proposal asking to promote and profit from the 6.5 Grendel. Unfortunately, discussions were underway on a higher level with large well known organizations that take precedent over what you can offer. Due to confidentialty at the time, it is highly unlikely that Alexander Arms would tell you of those discussions and the agreements being entered into.

Posting a complaining commentary like you have in this forum with the hope to motivate Alexander Arms to give you something is a good way to close the door on any future discussions. A door closure I would encourage Alexander Arms to do.

As far as your comment about being DAN TEC, not everyone, giving you some special credibility to be given rights to the 6.5 Grendel. Who or What is DAN TEC???? Hate to say it, the name DAN TEC does not come to mind in the same world as NAMMO, NORMA or other known European firearms companies. IMO, Alexander Arms needs to come to agreement with companies with the market presence to expand Grendel, not just anyone who wants to make and profit from it.

I really dont understand where is the link between a making ammo and the fact to allow me to get a reamer drawing, but If the caliber became a CIP caliber, all information will became public information, strange isn't ....

good shooting and enjoy information sharing

DAN TEC

 

[dantec]

my answer to mister Arne

Great thanks for your clear answer Mister Arne

I wishe you a great sucess with the big company in Europe even if I dont know where is the link between :

I want to built a demo / test rifle in France in 6.5 Grendell and make pressure test in a real pressure barrel on a new cartridge where I have sucess to get any serious pressure datas, just in the aim to increase my knowledge and write an article on your product, I have NEVER want to charge your company and/or make money with this works .

, Note :The fact to sucess to launch bullet is always possible but when you want to be serious in caliber design and dev that perhaps more than a detail than to built a pressure barrel, that make a little difference between a wildcat with even headstamped case and a true industrial product ) .

AND

the fact to see a caliber became a mass produce ammo and case by a big name company or several big name company

AND

the fact to have make a order a private run of propretary case to a big name company .

last point : If you meet the texas shooter, metallic silhouette shooter ) who had received my drawing of the 6.5x39 DTC IMP for AR15, JGS register ) several years ago after to have request me a copy on a shooting board, dont forget to ask him if he know DAN TEC ......and if the fact that I am french was a problem ?

I will be very happy to speak and not chat again with Mister Bill Alexander of the 6.5 Grendell market in Europe .

good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[TX65]

Alexander Arms is planning to authorize a couple of reamer makers to release the standard 6.5 Grendel reamer for non-commercial use. This release has been in the planning for quite sometime.

For a bolt action project, it will be fine,,, For building an AR15, without the proper barrel extension, the Grendel magazine's wont work.

Speedy Gonzalez has been chambering bolt action rifles since January of 2005.

Lapua is going to CIP the cartridge in Europe and this has been in discussion for a year. Lapua intends to release Lapua headstamped brass and ammo. In addition, Wolf will be releasing brass cased ammo this year.

Re Dantec's comments,,, per Bill Alexander, the only communication he has received from Dantec since the SHOT Show in January is releated to AP ammo on the 50 Beowulf. Weeks ago, he requested Dantec to send him a test email which he has not received as of this date.

 

[dantec]

Dear Mister Arnes


as usual it seems that YOUR TRUTH is a bit questionable on my communication way with the Alexander Company

I have try to reach Mr. alexander numerous time by phone, and get a female voice with always the same answer Mister Alexander is too busy to get calls .

I have send several mails up to post on the 6.5 Grendell forum and AT LEAST I have an answer from Mr. alexander, the same answer as on the 6.5 Grendell forum on the fact that the 6.5 Grendell is a propretary design and bla bla bla .

on all my proposals I have get any serious answer
You are not interesting by The market for the 50 Beowulf, you are affraid that will became a too powerfull round will classify the 50 Beowulf ?????? and prefer keep it as hunting round ??

You are not interesting to share anything on 6.5 Grendell

OK


YOU Mister Arne are just perhaps some year ago interesting to get a copy of the files of the 6.5x36 DTC 35° ..... register from JGS, the 11/25/98 ) SO far before you have design the 6.5 Grendell .......

SO open your mind and stop to make advsertissement on my comminication way with Alexander Arms

last point :

my concern was to built a pressure barrel and make lab load dev NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS

but it s seem that you / Alexander brake down on reamer specs sharing is perhaps a way to doesn t make or doesn t allow any serious pressure test in a real piezo barrel,by the way you can perhaps continue to make ads on under estimated pressure ?????????? or un reachable velocity at factory safe pressure

with my best regards

DANTEC

 

[TX65]

Dantec,

As of the date of my last post,August 8th), Bill Alexander had not received the test email he was asking for to attempt to rectify the communication difficulty. He told me yesterday that he has exchanged multiple email communications with you regarding a proposal you made for AP 50 Beowulf and he has told me that he is not interested in AP versions of the 50 Beowulf for a variety of reasons which he detailed in direct communication to you. Bill also told me that he received your proposal for doing something on the Grendel and their offer of license to you which you declined.

Regarding your 6.5x36 Dantec reamer with JGS on 11/25/98, my reamer and custom loading dies were completed and delivered long before that date. Therefore, it would be impossible for you to be a source of any information for my project.

You say you sent a drawing of some 6.5 cartridge to someone involved in silhouette shooting in Texas, and from your date of your reamer,Nov 1998), it is pretty clear that you did so well after my project was underway. Further, to set the record straight, I did not live in Texas from 1997 through 1999. In addition, I am not involved in silhouette shooting nor have I ever been. By the time of my return to Texas, I was out shooting my 6.5.

Are you trying to imply that your rumored drawing was used in the development of the Grendel? Bill Alexander has read your most recent post and is disturbed that you are now trying to imply this in a public forum, misinforming the public, without ever conveying your concern or claim to him during your multiple email communications of the past two months. Bill Alexander would welcome any communication concerning this matter through direct email which you two have now managed to be establish.

Bill Alexander is not a member of this forum so he asked me to post this in my response.


Arne

 

[Wild_Bill]

Dantec,

Bill Alexander is not a member of this forum so he asked me to post this in my response.

Arne

Hi Arnie i have been waiting about specs from Australia watching this post to see the results i dont know why Bill Alexander dosent just register on the forum so we can hear it from him there is interest in the calibre but we want hard data the testing does show some advantage over the 6.8 but the case is to short for belt feed and that is why it is not a realistic option for a military replacement. i dont think that Bill would have any trouble registering on the forum so lets let him speek so we can hear it from the horses mouth so to say if he is already reading the posts?? I have found Dan Tec to be verry helpfull and willing to share information with others for the betterment of the sport..

Bill
Australia