6.5 Grendel: your thoughts

[topclass2017]

I've had a bug up my shorts for awhile to add a 6.5 Grendel bolt rifle to my arsenal. Seeing as Brownells is running a hard to beat sale on Howa 1500 barreled actioned 6.5 Grendels the bug is biting a little deeper. At the same time, a CZ 527 would be a simpler, turnkey way of scratching the itch, rather than acquiring a stock to match the barreled action. My purpose for the rifle is recreational target shooting to 200-300 yards, and as a walking light varmint gun. The CZ is the less expensive alternative, but my gut tells me the Howa is a better action to work with. I'm not interested in getting into a debate on the merits of the Grendel vs other 6mm or 6.5mm calibers, but to gain insight from forum members into the question...

If you had a similar bug, if cost was not a consideration would you go the route of a 6.5 Grendel Howa barreled action or a CZ 527, and why?

In advance, thank you for your thoughts!

 

[Laurie]

I have a 6.5 Grendel Varmint in an (LSI installed) MDT Oryx chassis. This makes an excellent little short-range target job in this chambering. Very comfortable to shoot, excellent ergonomics out of the box, long forend so ideal for shooting off a bipod.

Oryx review here on a budget ($298 new on offer) 223 Rem 700 ADL with the factory plastic stock swapped out on the range allowing a factory v restock immediate comparison in the same shooting conditions.

https://rifleshooter.com

Living in the UK we don't get the fantastic offer prices that Brownells gives its US customers, so unless we want a custom stock not on the LSI built-up Howa rifle lists, it's as cheap to buy a complete rifle. AFAIK, there aren't very many other after-market stocks around as yet for the Mini 1500 action which I'm assuming is what you're contemplating as you're asking about the Grendel. Bought on its own the Oryx has a US RRP of $399, but I've noticed some on the Monday bargain prices A.S. Bulletins going for up to $100 less.

Should you want to upgrade the trigger (the HACT is crisp, but won't adjust much below 4lb say the Internet forum 'experts'. Mine breaks at 3.5lb out of the box but still seems too heavy at that.) Your options are to a) chop a coil off the trigger spring (there is a You Tube video on doing this job), b) go to an Australian guy whose outfit is called Gunbloke

https://gunbloke.com/ecommerce/

who sells a replacement 2lb spring at a very reasonable price and ships worldwide - he's on Ebay too; or c) get a Timney for the standard 1500 Short action. The guys on the 65Grendel Forum (which has threads on the new Cz527 MTR and the Howa Mini) say the short action Timney fits and works just fine on the Mini until you come to reinstall the action in the stock when you find there's not enough clearance there for the trigger assembly. A post put up recently says however, that the Oryx has been machined with generous enough clearances to accept a Timney equipped barreled action.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?23-6-5-Grendel-Bolt-Actions-amp-Single-Shots

There is a lot of other useful stuff on this forum including standard 'go-to' load combinations.

Rather heavy trigger aside, the Howa Mini is a really smooth and nice little action, but so too is the Cz527. (527s have become pricey in the UK and AFAIK we aren't offered them as barreled actions.) The polymer 5-round Howa Mini magazine works OK, but I'd rate the steel 527 model higher. However, I single-load almost everything and the Mini action / magazine set-up is very tolerant - just toss a cartridge in through the port and it'll feed smoothly with little friction off the top of magazine follower and/or feed lips.

 

[jghoghunter]

I bought the mini action in 6.5 Grendel when they were on sale for $359. I had it for over a year I finally shot it two weekends ago. I just picked loads out of the book for it with 123 grain Hornady sst's. Out of six five shot groups tried none of them made it to an inch three of them were well under .5. That's with the cheap spindly stock that's on it it was like shooting it off of a springboard on the front rest. It weighs less than 6 lb scoped. The factory trigger was very serviceable very nice for factory trigger.

 

[L W P]

I've had a bug up my shorts for awhile to add a 6.5 Grendel bolt rifle to my arsenal. Seeing as Brownells is running a hard to beat sale on Howa 1500 barreled actioned 6.5 Grendels the bug is biting a little deeper. At the same time, a CZ 527 would be a simpler, turnkey way of scratching the itch, rather than acquiring a stock to match the barreled action. My purpose for the rifle is recreational target shooting to 200-300 yards, and as a walking light varmint gun. The CZ is the less expensive alternative, but my gut tells me the Howa is a better action to work with. I'm not interested in getting into a debate on the merits of the Grendel vs other 6mm or 6.5mm calibers, but to gain insight from forum members into the question...

If you had a similar bug, if cost was not a consideration would you go the route of a 6.5 Grendel Howa barreled action or a CZ 527, and why?

In advance, thank you for your thoughts!

I definitely like the looks of the CZU Varmint MTR 6.5 Grendel with a 25.5 inch threaded 5/8x24 barrel (.866"muzzle) with the Turkish Walnut American-pattern stock. Grabagun did have them in stock, but at the moment out of stock. Priced at $805.99 I think is a pretty good deal. I do have the Mini Howa in 6.5 Grendel and I'm happy with it, but if I had it to do over I might have purchased the CZ MTR first. I'm probably getting the CZ for Christmas. LOL

 

[squint-n-squeeze]

I have a 6.5 Grendel Varmint in an (LSI installed) MDT Oryx chassis. This makes an excellent little short-range target job in this chambering. Very comfortable to shoot, excellent ergonomics out of the box, long forend so ideal for shooting off a bipod.

Oryx review here on a budget ($298 new on offer) 223 Rem 700 ADL with the factory plastic stock swapped out on the range allowing a factory v restock immediate comparison in the same shooting conditions.

https://rifleshooter.com

Living in the UK we don't get the fantastic offer prices that Brownells gives its US customers, so unless we want a custom stock not on the LSI built-up Howa rifle lists, it's as cheap to buy a complete rifle. AFAIK, there aren't very many other after-market stocks around as yet for the Mini 1500 action which I'm assuming is what you're contemplating as you're asking about the Grendel. Bought on its own the Oryx has a US RRP of $399, but I've noticed some on the Monday bargain prices A.S. Bulletins going for up to $100 less.

Should you want to upgrade the trigger (the HACT is crisp, but won't adjust much below 4lb say the Internet forum 'experts'. Mine breaks at 3.5lb out of the box but still seems too heavy at that.) Your options are to a) chop a coil off the trigger spring (there is a You Tube video on doing this job), b) go to an Australian guy whose outfit is called Gunbloke

https://gunbloke.com/ecommerce/

who sells a replacement 2lb spring at a very reasonable price and ships worldwide - he's on Ebay too; or c) get a Timney for the standard 1500 Short action. The guys on the 65Grendel Forum (which has threads on the new Cz527 MTR and the Howa Mini) say the short action Timney fits and works just fine on the Mini until you come to reinstall the action in the stock when you find there's not enough clearance there for the trigger assembly. A post put up recently says however, that the Oryx has been machined with generous enough clearances to accept a Timney equipped barreled action.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?23-6-5-Grendel-Bolt-Actions-amp-Single-Shots

There is a lot of other useful stuff on this forum including standard 'go-to' load combinations.

Rather heavy trigger aside, the Howa Mini is a really smooth and nice little action, but so too is the Cz527. (527s have become pricey in the UK and AFAIK we aren't offered them as barreled actions.) The polymer 5-round Howa Mini magazine works OK, but I'd rate the steel 527 model higher. However, I single-load almost everything and the Mini action / magazine set-up is very tolerant - just toss a cartridge in through the port and it'll feed smoothly with little friction off the top of magazine follower and/or feed lips.

Laurie, what are the sling attachment options on the MDT chassis? Do you think it would be suitable to hook up a prone sling?

 

[Laurie]

The forend is drilled and tapped up front for a screw-in swivel stud. There is a line of M-Lok slots behind that which will take M-Lok Picatinny rails, sling swivel fittings etc. MDT says that there is a pre-drilled buttstock hole that will accept a QD sling mount. I'm assuming though that you're thinking of sling shooting with a match type single-point sling? It seems you can find adapters these days for almost everything to fit onto a Picatinny type rail.

You could also mount an Anschutz / UIT type accessory rail to the underside of the forend by using M-Lok dimensioned bolts and T-head nuts and the machined-in M-Lok slots. The forend is completely flat over its entire length so that would be an easy attachment, maybe rather inelegant though.

 

[cmillard]

Just an FYI, criterion barrels does prefits for the Howa mini 1500 in 6.5 Grendel.

 

[fatelvis]

I was under the impression the Grendel was strictly a AR15 cartridge. Is there an improvement in performance in a bolt gun?

 

[JASmith]

I was under the impression the Grendel was strictly a AR15 cartridge. Is there an improvement in performance in a bolt gun?

There are a number of factory bolt gun options for the Grendel. For starters, check Howa and CZ.

I can also personally attest that it works well in the TC Encore too.

A lot of us have gone the custom rifle path too.

Most of the reasons for using the cartridge in an AR map nicely into the decision to go with a. bolt gun. These include ot being a small, mild recoil cartridge capable of good target work and suitable for harvesting varmints through medium game both close in and out to interesting ranges.

 

[Laurie]

You can run the cartridge a bit 'warmer' in a bolt-gun. US SAAMI MAP is only 52,000 psi whilst the European CIP is 4,050 bar / 58,740 psi. These values may not be strictly comparable due to test regimes, but should be broadly so.

As I understand it, the AR-15 bolt face is opened up to the maximum possible to accommodate the 0.440" case-head of the 7.62X39 / Grendel case, so much so that the locking lugs are a lot thinner than Gene Stoner designed and is used in 223 Rem bolts. I saw a figure in print somewhere years ago that said the US Army put a 9,000 round count figure on such bolts in 7.62X39mm M16 test rifles as the maximum advisable use before a bolt change, lug cracking starting to appear at that point. I assume this is why SAAMI has set the maximum pressure so relatively low, it being a cartridge that until recently was almost entirely used in ARs and similar.

Even though the Howa and Cz527 are 'mini' actions with smaller locking lugs and diameter bolts than in standard short actions, they'll be plenty strong for higher pressures. The Lapua 220 Russian / Grendel case is a strong one as seen with some of the loads the short-range BR shooters routinely use with 220 Russian reformed to PPC.

 

[watercam]

Having shot a CZ 527 in Mid-range competition (600 yds) I can attest to the action being able to support at 30" barrel when bedded properly. That said, the Howa seems to have a bit more beef to it and would be my choice if I were to build another.
As far as the Grendal as a target cartridge, I once shot next to a gent using Sierra 123gr MKs shoot a Master score at 1000 yds. with one. He shot three more strings of 22 shots each and pretty much tied his score every time at a range where wind is ALWAYS an issue. I was impressed. He was shooting an AR match rifle.

 

[Bill K]

I have both Howa and CZ rifles, none in the 6.5 Grendel, but either would serve you if you want to stop that itch.
CZ all ready to go. The special price on the Howa action is a good one, and for another 160.oo you could drop it into a nice Boyd's laminated stock. Take you pick and enjoy, a Grendel if it is what you want.

 

[mac86951]

I've had a bug up my shorts for awhile to add a 6.5 Grendel bolt rifle to my arsenal. Seeing as Brownells is running a hard to beat sale on Howa 1500 barreled actioned 6.5 Grendels the bug is biting a little deeper. At the same time, a CZ 527 would be a simpler, turnkey way of scratching the itch, rather than acquiring a stock to match the barreled action. My purpose for the rifle is recreational target shooting to 200-300 yards, and as a walking light varmint gun. The CZ is the less expensive alternative, but my gut tells me the Howa is a better action to work with. I'm not interested in getting into a debate on the merits of the Grendel vs other 6mm or 6.5mm calibers, but to gain insight from forum members into the question...

If you had a similar bug, if cost was not a consideration would you go the route of a 6.5 Grendel Howa barreled action or a CZ 527, and why?

In advance, thank you for your thoughts!

Target to 200-300y; get the heavy barrel Howa (on sale Brownells). Stock:. B&C has one ready to go. Plastic mags are a love/hate. Mine are ok, others report trouble.

CZ = turnkey with metal mags

6.5 Grendel is great in a bolt. Shoot factory ammo (Hornady Gunner / black). Save brass and seat bullets to the lands and you can get more velocity out of the case. (Read the cartridge guide for 6.5 Grendel).

The light barrel may be good on the Howa, but with B&C stock at 2.7ish pounds it's still a rifle on the lighter side with the "heavy" barrel. (I think all-in with tacticool scope I'm near 7lbs)

-Mac

 

[topclass2017]

Mac: thanks! I went with the Howa 1500 mini action from Brownells, currently mounted in a factory stock. that might change soon. I mounted a Weaver v16 on a 20 moa rail so I should be good to the 2-300 yard distance I contemplate. Working on load development - so far with 120's and am going to add 100-107's to the mix. I'm thinking it might perform better with a lighter bullet.

 

[stacy]

I HAVE A HOWA MINI 6.5 GRENDAL HEAVY BARREL IN A B/C STOCK MY VARMINT LOAD IS 90GR SPEER TNT WITH H-335 MY DEER LOAD IS 100GR BARNES TTXS THIS IS FINE LITTLE HARVESTER RIG WHEN PUT TO THE TEST

 

[AWS]

Mini Howa HB in 6.5 Grendel in a Boyds thumbhole stock. Great bench and varmint gun, a little awkward for a coyote calling rig. Never hunted deer from a stand but I think it would work well for that also.

 

[AWS]

Here is the same rifle with a bobbed mag.



I'm looking for a take off stock for a HB Mini Howa.

 

[AWS]

Edit function isn't working to add picture so here it is

 

[Coryp915]

The Grendel is a great little cartridge in an AR or bolt gun. You can load a bolt gun up a little warmer and seat bullets out a bit further. I shoot mine 600 all the time.

 

[jbmarshtx]

I have a Howa HB in a boyd's stock and timney. Took 2 doe with it using alexander arms factory ammo. I like it. Very handy. About a 1 moa gun with factory ammo. I'm sure it would do better with handloads.

I pieced together a grendel in a R700 for highpower silhouette. Works well. I hand load for that one. Varget is not as fast, but works for my purposes with 108 lapua. I use leverevolution right now for 500m and berger 130s. Works well.

You can use 8208 xbr for up to 123s or so.