BL-C2 and 123's are a very good combo.
6.5 Grendel Bolt rifle
- Thread starter Ksmirk
- Start date
On that CZ527 you need to look up James Calhoon for a single shot follower, it'll make you smile! those controlled feeders need to pick the round up as try too many times to snap it over you'll break it, I've broke a few on Mauser's not paying attention 
Yes I just got conformation from PTG on the bolt head and talked with SSS this afternoon and the extractor kit will be put in the mail Monday but have awhile to wait for the mag box to play with and see if I can't get it to feed well.
Well there is some good info on this post fella's thanks a mess! it's going to probably be 3-4 months before I can REALLY get to working on this but I'll be sure and post up how things go as it seems there isn't a mess of info for the bolt guns. Later,
Kirk
Yes I just got conformation from PTG on the bolt head and talked with SSS this afternoon and the extractor kit will be put in the mail Monday but have awhile to wait for the mag box to play with and see if I can't get it to feed well.
Well there is some good info on this post fella's thanks a mess! it's going to probably be 3-4 months before I can REALLY get to working on this but I'll be sure and post up how things go as it seems there isn't a mess of info for the bolt guns. Later,
Kirk
I've had a CZ 527 in 6.5 Grendel for about 2 years and it's a great little gun. If you have realistic expectations of what it's capable of (sounds like you do) you'll love it. I use mine as a walkabout rifle in the woods so it's a short 19" barrel. I shoot the 130gr Accubonds at 2430 fps for deer and the 130 VLD at 2420 fps for everything else. Both loads are capable of going faster but those are just the velocities that work best for me.
The 123 class bullets are execellent and some of the best groups I've fired from the gun were with factory 123 a-max ammo I shot just to get the brass. The Hornady brass I have now is on its 6th firing and it's still going strong. I've had good luck with cci 450s and 8208 but h335 worked well too. I just used standard AR data and worked up until I was happy with the results. I don't think you can gain a whole lot of performance over an AR in he bolt gun, but the longer OAL will make a big difference for you.
The 123 class bullets are execellent and some of the best groups I've fired from the gun were with factory 123 a-max ammo I shot just to get the brass. The Hornady brass I have now is on its 6th firing and it's still going strong. I've had good luck with cci 450s and 8208 but h335 worked well too. I just used standard AR data and worked up until I was happy with the results. I don't think you can gain a whole lot of performance over an AR in he bolt gun, but the longer OAL will make a big difference for you.
You can't load the AR as hot as a good bolt gun. Pressure wise, you're limited to about 50,000psi with a Grendel. This is with AA bolts. Their loading data reflects same. The larger case head of a Grendel over a 5.56 generates more bolt thrust.
You can certainly hot rod the Grendel in a bolt gun, but the brass is still the weak link. Keeping the pressures similar but taking advantage of a longer OAL is where you'll see gains in a bolt action.
I guess the question is what will give a more meaningful increase in performance, a 10% increase in pressure or a 10% increase in case capacity. I don't have QL in front of me right now but I'll get actual numbers later.
I guess the question is what will give a more meaningful increase in performance, a 10% increase in pressure or a 10% increase in case capacity. I don't have QL in front of me right now but I'll get actual numbers later.
6.5 Grendel pressure limits. Saami is 52K and CIP is 58.7K.
5.56x45 loads run at 62K ( with a longer throat of course) so I would think a standard AR and a Bolt rifle run within these limits would be no problem for either one. The temptation is when using Lapua brass and wanting to really hot rod it but why would you want to hot rod a Grendel? Its perfect for what it does, as is.
5.56x45 loads run at 62K ( with a longer throat of course) so I would think a standard AR and a Bolt rifle run within these limits would be no problem for either one. The temptation is when using Lapua brass and wanting to really hot rod it but why would you want to hot rod a Grendel? Its perfect for what it does, as is.
Lapa Grendel brass is as good as brass gets, IMO. I've been shooting a 30 call Grendel in BR for the last 10 years...I'll say this in regard to pressures. I've fired just one of my BR loads in an AR15. That was how many it took to shear two ligs off of the bolt. In my bolt gun, and this same load, I get upwards of 50 loadings on Lapa brass. Seems like Dan Lilja had or has a bolt thrust calculator on his website along wits a detailed areticle on the subject. It's a good read. Bolt thrust is the reason why 5.56 max pressures are higher than Grendel max pressures. The bolt and case head size are the differences and the weak link in an AR15.
I've started playing with AA2520 again with my 223 bolt rifles and with the 75gr BTHP's I'm finding it's matching my RL15 loads plus I can load on the Dillon and still have good consistent results so guess I have some decent powders already on hand when I get the Grendel completed to try. I really would in the back of my head want to try and ring out as much as I could with the little round but I'm pretty realistic about what I'm getting into with the round and I have other rounds with more cubic inches if I feel the need for more speed
Fella's this thread started out rather slow but I can tell you that the last few days there has been a mess of great information show up that I'm getting excited about this little build! I've got high hopes for the 130gr bullets but don't think I'd be handicapped with the 123's or 120's and even the 107 and 108's look pretty good at the ranges I'm thinking this rifle will be used for.... yea I'm sure I'll take it to the range when I'm shoothing my LR rifles and see what it'll do at 1K and probably even throw a couple at the 1350 plate lol should be interesting to see if it will even make it that far.
I know the Lapua brass is like the cat meow and I'm sure sooner or later I'll end up with some but a couple of questions, when I loaded for a 6mm Fat Rat I used Hornady brass and well found out quick that it doesn't have the capacity of the Lapua brass! like a grain less powder and the pierced primers and loose primer pockets but what's your mileage sizing down the 7.62x39 brass? I know several folks have mentioned that they do this but just curious about the powder volume, I know I'd have to fire form to get the taper out but after that just curious on the powder charges.... anyone be able to offer suggestions? I shoot field conditions and truth if I lost the Lapua brass with the price I'd be a little upset. Also on the SAMMI spec reamer can anyone offer a COL to the lands? Later,
Kirk
Fella's this thread started out rather slow but I can tell you that the last few days there has been a mess of great information show up that I'm getting excited about this little build! I've got high hopes for the 130gr bullets but don't think I'd be handicapped with the 123's or 120's and even the 107 and 108's look pretty good at the ranges I'm thinking this rifle will be used for.... yea I'm sure I'll take it to the range when I'm shoothing my LR rifles and see what it'll do at 1K and probably even throw a couple at the 1350 plate lol should be interesting to see if it will even make it that far.
I know the Lapua brass is like the cat meow and I'm sure sooner or later I'll end up with some but a couple of questions, when I loaded for a 6mm Fat Rat I used Hornady brass and well found out quick that it doesn't have the capacity of the Lapua brass! like a grain less powder and the pierced primers and loose primer pockets but what's your mileage sizing down the 7.62x39 brass? I know several folks have mentioned that they do this but just curious about the powder volume, I know I'd have to fire form to get the taper out but after that just curious on the powder charges.... anyone be able to offer suggestions? I shoot field conditions and truth if I lost the Lapua brass with the price I'd be a little upset. Also on the SAMMI spec reamer can anyone offer a COL to the lands? Later,
Kirk
I normally deal with Manson on reamers but when I was over at my buddies digging thru the reamers found a SAMMI spec just not sure who's it was as we couldn't find a print so maybe I need to do some measuring! most of the time I just use the SAMMI specs and if needed I'll use a throater to get where I need to be. I'm sure there are a mess of different reamers out there and I found out that the wheel has been redesigned many times lol so there could be one out there that is close enough that it will work.
If I ran the numbers right and this weekend there is a good chance I didn't but with the bullets I initially intended to use looks like the OAL will be around 2.600" and the Ogive length around 2.038/2.011" depending on bullet so from what rwh mentioned looks like some more effort on my part will be due! the bullets I set out using were the Berger 130's but also used the info for the Berger 120. This is starting to get more in depth than I initially expected for sure as I'm sitting close to .350" longer than the round was meant to be if I place the boat tail at the neck junction...... sheesh what am I thinking! Later,
Kirk
If I ran the numbers right and this weekend there is a good chance I didn't but with the bullets I initially intended to use looks like the OAL will be around 2.600" and the Ogive length around 2.038/2.011" depending on bullet so from what rwh mentioned looks like some more effort on my part will be due! the bullets I set out using were the Berger 130's but also used the info for the Berger 120. This is starting to get more in depth than I initially expected for sure as I'm sitting close to .350" longer than the round was meant to be if I place the boat tail at the neck junction...... sheesh what am I thinking! Later,
Kirk
I have been loading for a CZ527 with a 22 inch Obermeyer SAAMI chambered Grendel for almost 2 years with the 130 Berger Hybrids and 129gr LR accubonds for about a year. Both are loaded just short enough to function reliably through the mag at 2.285 inches total. I have only used CFE223 powder in Lapua brass with these bullets and 30.3 grains gets me 2450 from my rifle with great accuracy IMO. I have taken that round to 600 yards with good results with both bullets.
That round is not a hotrod round as I know several using the same powder charge seated .014 shorter in their ARs with good results.
That round is not a hotrod round as I know several using the same powder charge seated .014 shorter in their ARs with good results.
Ksmirk
I've had the Grendel bug for a few years now. There's a guy on 65Grendel, BjornF16, who built a Grendel on a Savage 10FCM. Here are his specs and comments. If you use a Savage 10/111 and the Savage 55521 magazines you should be good to go!
BjornF16's Savage Grendel
Build summary:
Host rifle - Savage 10FCM Scout 7.62x39 (http://www.savagearms.com) ~$700.00
Drop in barrel - PacNor CrMo SuperMatch, 21", Grendel Match chamber (.295" neck) (http://www.pac-nor.com/services/match.html) $260.00
Chambering, contouring, crowning and threading for Savage action. $125.00
Bolt head - Sharp Shooter Supply complete PPC bolt head (http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/FactoryParts.html) $68.00
Bolt handle - Sharp Shooter Supply Tactical bolt handle (http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/FactoryParts.html) $46.00
Scope rings - Tally Lightweight rings, 2 piece, 30mm (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/26...6-110-through-116-round-rear-axis-matte-high} $49.99
Scope - Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44 MOA (http://swfa.com/Vortex-25-10x44-Viper-HS-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P48288.aspx) $419.95
Tools used:
Wheeler Engineering Action Wrench #2 Savage 110 - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/710783/wheeler-engineering-action-wrench-2-remington-700-savage-110 $64.99
Barrel Nut wrench - Sharp Shooter Supply smooth barrel nut wrench $45.00
Go/No Go gauges
What I'd do different:
1. Replace recoil lug (the factory did not have the pin to keep centered) $30.00
2. Replace barrel nut - http://thebarreloutlet.com/accessories/ $20.00
3. Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP - http://swfa.com/Vortex-25-10x32-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P60984.aspx $799.95
Overall I'm very pleased with the rifle. It is more accurate than I can shoot.
I've had the Grendel bug for a few years now. There's a guy on 65Grendel, BjornF16, who built a Grendel on a Savage 10FCM. Here are his specs and comments. If you use a Savage 10/111 and the Savage 55521 magazines you should be good to go!
BjornF16's Savage Grendel
Build summary:
Host rifle - Savage 10FCM Scout 7.62x39 (http://www.savagearms.com) ~$700.00
Drop in barrel - PacNor CrMo SuperMatch, 21", Grendel Match chamber (.295" neck) (http://www.pac-nor.com/services/match.html) $260.00
Chambering, contouring, crowning and threading for Savage action. $125.00
Bolt head - Sharp Shooter Supply complete PPC bolt head (http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/FactoryParts.html) $68.00
Bolt handle - Sharp Shooter Supply Tactical bolt handle (http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/FactoryParts.html) $46.00
Scope rings - Tally Lightweight rings, 2 piece, 30mm (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/26...6-110-through-116-round-rear-axis-matte-high} $49.99
Scope - Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44 MOA (http://swfa.com/Vortex-25-10x44-Viper-HS-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P48288.aspx) $419.95
Tools used:
Wheeler Engineering Action Wrench #2 Savage 110 - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/710783/wheeler-engineering-action-wrench-2-remington-700-savage-110 $64.99
Barrel Nut wrench - Sharp Shooter Supply smooth barrel nut wrench $45.00
Go/No Go gauges
What I'd do different:
1. Replace recoil lug (the factory did not have the pin to keep centered) $30.00
2. Replace barrel nut - http://thebarreloutlet.com/accessories/ $20.00
3. Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP - http://swfa.com/Vortex-25-10x32-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P60984.aspx $799.95
Overall I'm very pleased with the rifle. It is more accurate than I can shoot.
I love the Grendel! I killed my mule deer and my elk with mine this year. I found the bullets right under the off side hide on both animals.
Or 6.5 BRX
. I have an AR upper chambered like that. I sort of want to do up a savage barrel to use it there also. I have both Grendel and the BRX. Have barely shot either the last 9 months.I have vrecently bought 2 Howa minis, one a 20" bull barrel, 2nd one 22" sporter now in a boyds stock.
Having two bad sholders due to being hit by a truck in the VA parking lot (in Ca., while in a wheelchair), i can appreciate the lighter weight and recoil to continue pursuing HP Silhouette. Howa action quality/machining is excellent, barrel accuracy is damn good compared to early 80s barrels.
Initial groups from both rifles with factory ammo and handloads get .5- .75 moa with 120-123 grain match bullets. I have not tried 130s yet. Contined load development is required.
Lupua brass has largest volume, 7.62x39 brass smallest.
Im concentrating on 100-600 yd capabilities and the Howa mini fits in that niche very well.
Having two bad sholders due to being hit by a truck in the VA parking lot (in Ca., while in a wheelchair), i can appreciate the lighter weight and recoil to continue pursuing HP Silhouette. Howa action quality/machining is excellent, barrel accuracy is damn good compared to early 80s barrels.
Initial groups from both rifles with factory ammo and handloads get .5- .75 moa with 120-123 grain match bullets. I have not tried 130s yet. Contined load development is required.
Lupua brass has largest volume, 7.62x39 brass smallest.
Im concentrating on 100-600 yd capabilities and the Howa mini fits in that niche very well.
I have the howa mini 20" bull in a MDT chassis . The consensus on 8208xbr is max 28.5 grain . I did go to 28.8gn in my bolt action and had to stop due to near peirced primers and heavy extractor marks . I haven't used the CFE 223 yet in my bolt howa Grendel. I did buy a lb of power pro varmint to try to get the 130 Berger hybrid ar up to 2500fps . Have you looked at Sierra's Grendel load data ? They don't have CFE 223 data , but they give a higher max load in other powders that may be fine for the bolt action rifle. These rifles are very fun to shoot and load for . I know they aren't a fast load , but my 24" Lilja barreled ar Grendel can bang 1000yd steel all day long . I can puff my cigar and get back to my scope to watch it hit to painted steel as slow as it is , but it's very accurate . It's a 18"x11" silhouette and Its simple to hit once streyloked in .
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