6.5 Grend vs. 6.5x47 vs. 260
- Thread starter Josh11
- Start date
Barrel life the nod goes to the Grendel and Lapua.
Speed it goes to the .260, the Grendel's no speed demon (best I've done so far with a 140 is 2200FPS) and pressure spikes quickly with it, it can be a bit tweaky, that being said I've seen a lot of people have trouble with the .260 being hard to tune as well. The Lapua's a good compromise here probably.
Accuracy it's probably going to go to the Lapua though the Grendel's surprised me a lot from what I've seen so far, good things happen when a cartridge is basically a cousin of the 6MM PPC.
The BC on any of them's the same as they're all 6.5s.
You could always toss another into the mix and go for the 6.5 Creedmoor as well - it seems to have all the things you want.
Any of those cartridges will take deer out to 1000 yards if you were so inclined.
Wayne
Speed it goes to the .260, the Grendel's no speed demon (best I've done so far with a 140 is 2200FPS) and pressure spikes quickly with it, it can be a bit tweaky, that being said I've seen a lot of people have trouble with the .260 being hard to tune as well. The Lapua's a good compromise here probably.
Accuracy it's probably going to go to the Lapua though the Grendel's surprised me a lot from what I've seen so far, good things happen when a cartridge is basically a cousin of the 6MM PPC.
The BC on any of them's the same as they're all 6.5s.
You could always toss another into the mix and go for the 6.5 Creedmoor as well - it seems to have all the things you want.
Any of those cartridges will take deer out to 1000 yards if you were so inclined.
Wayne
6.5x47 given your stated purpose.
Mark Walker in TX said:
Ditto and really the 6.5x47 can be pushed as fast as the 260, I am running 123s at apx 3050
out of a 22" barrel.
The 6.5 CM was too new at the time (aka, no brass) so I went with the 260 but now I probably would go with the CM. Experimenting with brass (Rem, Win, 243, 7-08, etc.) & loads takes away from actually shooting and the CM has established loads with quality brass, IMHO.
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
If you're punching paper at 300 or less, I'd consider the Grendel. Assuming shorter range shots on deer. The thought of shooting a deer at 1000 yards scares the bejebbers out of me.
I shoot a 6.5 Grendel necked up to 30 at IBS score. I *really* like it and it was a natural for my PPC bolt face rifle.
Are you buying a new rifle? If you already have one, the bolt face might be an issue. I don't know what it is on the 260.
If you have a 308-sized bolt face, another option you might want to think about is something on the 6 BR case. Check out http://www.65br.com/ .
FWIW, I like 6's and 30's for the huge selection of bullets.
I shoot a 6.5 Grendel necked up to 30 at IBS score. I *really* like it and it was a natural for my PPC bolt face rifle.
Are you buying a new rifle? If you already have one, the bolt face might be an issue. I don't know what it is on the 260.
If you have a 308-sized bolt face, another option you might want to think about is something on the 6 BR case. Check out http://www.65br.com/ .
FWIW, I like 6's and 30's for the huge selection of bullets.
louielouie said:
About 3 years ago, I embarked on a project to build an NRA HP match rifle in 6.5 on an AR platform to shoot matches. The Grendel was already out and in production, the 6.5 CM had just been released by Hornady, the 260 was already out, and the 6.5x47 was just a rumor at the time. So I elected to build a Grendel on an AR platform with a 26" 1:8 barrel.
I really wanted the CM, but quite honestly, I was skeptical of the velocity claims being made by Hornady. My experience has been that such claims were not realistic, and could only be achieved by test barrels, and ammo in a controlled enviroment. Subsequently, Hornady's claims have been borne out, and are achievable. In fact, Hornady puts the reloading data on the catridge box for everyone to see and use.
The problem that I had with the Grendel is that the rifles are usually "short" chambered, meaning that the bullet has to be seated deeply into the case, and thus limits the powder capacity.
Recently, I've lenghtened the throat of the Grendel with a PT&G Uni-throater, but the 123 gr bullets have been the most accurate in my rifle. Using heavier bullets, the velocity drops very low which is not something I want to do, and still maintain safe pressures. The grendel is only a 50K psi cartridge. With 123 grs, 2575 to 2600 fps is about your top speed by the way.
If I had to do it all over again (20/20 hindsight is great, and how many times have we heard that one!), I would go with the 6.5 CM. This not a knock on the Lapua or 260 fans, but when price, availability, reloading, platforms,etc. are all factored together, my choice would be the CM. IMHO
Bill
The only issue with the 6.5 Creedmore is that Hornady has been having issues keeping brass or ammo in regular stock for the shooters. the factory ammo is good and very reasonably priced when you can find it. I've seen many folks dump it because their rifles were finished, but no ammo or brass to be found locally or online.
If you want something in the AR15 platform the Grendel is it. Otherwise it doesn't belong in the comparison because it can't compete with 6.5x47L, .260 or 6.5 Creedmor.
If you want something in the AR15 platform the Grendel is it. Otherwise it doesn't belong in the comparison because it can't compete with 6.5x47L, .260 or 6.5 Creedmor.
If you want a semi-auto, you're limiting your choice to the Grendel unless you want to carry an AR-10 around out in the field.
In a bolt gun you're giving up at least 300 fps - or more - with any bullet over 120 grains in the Grendel. 130's the heaviest practical bullet for that case but it's of limited value unless you push the throat out as 'louielouie' points out. I have a 30" Broughton chambered for it & I've shot Norma's 130 gn Diamond to 1,000 yards with velocities approaching 2,600 fps but it's at least a minute outside many otherwise competitive 6mm's & 6.5-284.
Given the brass situation I'd probably go with the .260 REM if I were in your position. Between it and the 6.5 Lapua barrel life ought to be pretty good compared to a 6.5-284. The less propellant the better the barrel life generally but I don't think a 260 REM is particularly hard on barrels.
(Sherri Gallagher's using her T2k chambered in 260 Rem again this year at the NRA High Power Championship & she's been in the lead all week so far with 71.6% X's! After 180 rounds, she's 1 point (but 20 X's!) ahead of Carl Bernosky shooting his 6HAGAR spacegun for the fourth year.)
In a bolt gun you're giving up at least 300 fps - or more - with any bullet over 120 grains in the Grendel. 130's the heaviest practical bullet for that case but it's of limited value unless you push the throat out as 'louielouie' points out. I have a 30" Broughton chambered for it & I've shot Norma's 130 gn Diamond to 1,000 yards with velocities approaching 2,600 fps but it's at least a minute outside many otherwise competitive 6mm's & 6.5-284.
Given the brass situation I'd probably go with the .260 REM if I were in your position. Between it and the 6.5 Lapua barrel life ought to be pretty good compared to a 6.5-284. The less propellant the better the barrel life generally but I don't think a 260 REM is particularly hard on barrels.
(Sherri Gallagher's using her T2k chambered in 260 Rem again this year at the NRA High Power Championship & she's been in the lead all week so far with 71.6% X's! After 180 rounds, she's 1 point (but 20 X's!) ahead of Carl Bernosky shooting his 6HAGAR spacegun for the fourth year.)
[/quote]The grendel is only a 50K psi cartridge. With 123 grs, 2575 to 2600 fps is about your top speed by the way.
Bill
[/quote]
Bill, The cartridge is not a 50K psi cartridge. The Alexander Arms AR15 bolts(and maybe some others) are what's rated at 50K psi, and I wouldn't go that high with some of the cheaper AR bolts if it were me. I load the brass(necked up to 30 Cal) to much higher pressures than that in a bolt gun. It's a great cartridge for wildcatters and anyone else wanting to use it in where it is at it's best, IMO--Mike Ezell
Bill
[/quote]
Bill, The cartridge is not a 50K psi cartridge. The Alexander Arms AR15 bolts(and maybe some others) are what's rated at 50K psi, and I wouldn't go that high with some of the cheaper AR bolts if it were me. I load the brass(necked up to 30 Cal) to much higher pressures than that in a bolt gun. It's a great cartridge for wildcatters and anyone else wanting to use it in where it is at it's best, IMO--Mike Ezell
"Given the brass situation I'd probably go with the .260 REM"
Not to knock you specifically, but I don't know why people ever use the brass argument when putting the .260 against the 6.5 Creedmoor when there isn't any good brass available for the .260 either, as far as I know it's only Remington that's available. I'm not saying Remington brass is bad, I like the stuff but it's not considered top tier by most. With the 6.5CM it's Hornady VS the .260's Remington brass, from what I've seen Hornady's a bit better than Remington typically. Those are your factory brass options for the two.
That leaves you with saying you can make it from another cartridge from a better maker like Lapua's .243 or .308 brass - you can make 6.5 Creedmoor from the .308 family as well. You can also make Creedmoor brass from Lapua's .22-250 for the Creedmoor. Making brass for either the 6.5CM or .260 will leave you with some work but these two cartridges are completely on par with each other on brass quality and availability from a 'make it yourself' stand point.
The 6.5X47 is the real winner in the brass argument but it gives up a little velocity performance against the 6.5CM and .260.
I've read that the 6.5CM is supposed to be good for around 4000 rounds for barrel life, I imagine the 6.5 Lapua will be the same, the .260 will be the weakest when it comes to barrel life. I don't think any the cartridges in question are barrel burners by any means with the exception of the 6.5-284.
I put some pictures up along with the process I used for making 6.5CM out of Lapua .22-250: http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3748566.0.html
Wayne
ETA: Mike Ezell,
What brass are you running on your 30-Grendel? I'm going through brass really bad with my 6.5 Grendel and I'm using pretty tame loads.
Not to knock you specifically, but I don't know why people ever use the brass argument when putting the .260 against the 6.5 Creedmoor when there isn't any good brass available for the .260 either, as far as I know it's only Remington that's available. I'm not saying Remington brass is bad, I like the stuff but it's not considered top tier by most. With the 6.5CM it's Hornady VS the .260's Remington brass, from what I've seen Hornady's a bit better than Remington typically. Those are your factory brass options for the two.
That leaves you with saying you can make it from another cartridge from a better maker like Lapua's .243 or .308 brass - you can make 6.5 Creedmoor from the .308 family as well. You can also make Creedmoor brass from Lapua's .22-250 for the Creedmoor. Making brass for either the 6.5CM or .260 will leave you with some work but these two cartridges are completely on par with each other on brass quality and availability from a 'make it yourself' stand point.
The 6.5X47 is the real winner in the brass argument but it gives up a little velocity performance against the 6.5CM and .260.
I've read that the 6.5CM is supposed to be good for around 4000 rounds for barrel life, I imagine the 6.5 Lapua will be the same, the .260 will be the weakest when it comes to barrel life. I don't think any the cartridges in question are barrel burners by any means with the exception of the 6.5-284.
I put some pictures up along with the process I used for making 6.5CM out of Lapua .22-250: http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3748566.0.html
Wayne
ETA: Mike Ezell,
What brass are you running on your 30-Grendel? I'm going through brass really bad with my 6.5 Grendel and I'm using pretty tame loads.
15Tango said:
Wayne, I only use the Lapua and Alexander Arms brass. The AA brass is Lapua brass with the Alex-A headstamp. I had over 40 firings on the last bunch of match brass that I threw out and rebarrelled the gun. That's with very fast burning powders and stiff loads in my BR rifles. I did test some Remington brass formed from 7.62x39. It was junk. The Lapua holds up very well. ---Mike Ezell
Norma now makes 260 brass in their custom competition line. It is equal or better than Lapua brass. My next build will be a 260 or 6.5x47 for 600-1000yd paper shooting. The 47 that I shoot against at the range will stay with the 6br all the way from 100 to 600 and surpass it after that. I was shocked at its accuracy even the first time out with a trial load of RL15 and 123 Lapua. One hole groups! Savage action with custom Shilen 1:9 twist barrel (no nut) 26" long HV. If I was hunting long range deer I may opt for the 260 with 140gr bullets. For paper I would go with the 47.
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