6.5 Creedmore vs 7mm'08 ?

[BCoates]

I can get 2750 pretty dang easy with my 7-08 and RL-17 with the 162 Amax (with absolutely no pressure signs in my rifle.)

This is coming from a hunting set-up with a 21.5" Bartlein.

I imagine if you set it up, specifically for the 162's and ran a 26" barrel you could probably get to 2800-2850 pretty easily with this combo.

However, based on recoil alone, I would definitely go with a 6mm or 6.5mm for competitions.

Your setup sounds like a great deer slayer. I think that is where the 7mm-08 really shines. I'm glad you went with the 162 gr vs. the 140 class bullets that most hunters shoot. I thought about getting one but already have a 270 Win, 308 Win, and 6.5 Creed.

 

[shoot4fun]

I own both and have seen good results with both. I do enjoy the lower recoil of the 6.5CM over the 7MM-08 and have some shooting results and numbers, from JBM but closely imitated in real shooting) that really say the (with reasonable loads) 6.5CM is better:
7MM-08
168SMK
2730 FPS (24")
9.1 mil elevation at 1000 yards
2.1 mil windage with 10 MPH cross wind

6.5CM
142SMK
2850 FPS (24")
8.1 mil at 1000 yards
1.9 mil windage with 10 MPH cross wind

The big advantage to the 6.5 IMHO is that you can buy match grade ammo off the shelf and get match grade results.

 

[22BRGUY]

When you move up in diameter, doesn't the larger diameter win? With bc's being comparable....

My experience generally is that if you increase the diameter of a bullet but keep the weight the same, the BC must go down on the bigger diameter bullet. Physics says that a bigger diameter object flying forward will have more resistance to the air it's traveling through. Hope that makes sense. I've never seen 2 bullets with the same weight and see a higher BC or as high BC on the bigger diameter bullet as on the smaller diameter one. If one is out there I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[walley2960]

When you move up in diameter, doesn't the larger diameter win? With bc's being comparable....

My experience generally is that if you increase the diameter of a bullet but keep the weight the same, the BC must go down on the bigger diameter bullet. Physics says that a bigger diameter object flying forward will have more resistance to the air it's traveling through. Hope that makes sense. I've never seen 2 bullets with the same weight and see a higher BC or as high BC on the bigger diameter bullet as on the smaller diameter one. If one is out there I'd be interested in seeing it.

Generally I've had the same thought. One exception that I'm aware of. The Nozler bt .224 55gr b.c. .267
.243 55gr b.c. .276
Data from nozler website.
When building a varmint rifle years ago I stumbled across this anomaly, there could be others. I also am curious if there are.

 

[holstil]

I've thought about these chamberings also. The great thing about this hobby is figuring out what you want to try next. They are both fine chamberings IMO.
If I can get time on my side I want to run some of these 156vlds through a couple tubes then try the new 150 Scenars. I like the small 7's a little better with these bullets.

Jim

 

[jsthntn247]

Ballistically they are almost identical. The 7-08 shoots bigger bullets and therefore will have more energy at extended range.

Wrong..the weight of the bullet is almost irrelevant. It's the ballistic coefficient and sectional density that does the work..
The 7/08 while a fine cartridge can not match the ballistic coefficient and sectional density of a 6.5 mm bullet in a weight that is light enough to push to a good velocity.

I use 308 Lapua palma brass reformed in my 6.5 creedmore 24" barrel..shooting the 140 VLD at 2,950 FPS.
to match that bullet you would need to go to the 168 VLD or 162 A-max in the 7 bore. I do not think the 7/08 has enough powder capacity to push either of those bullets over 2,700 FPS...although either one of those bullets at 2,700 FPS is not bad medicine . It would seem the .284 in a long action would be a much better choice or just go all out to the 7 mag as I do when trying to out perform those slippery 6...IMO

Well all depends on if he wants to hunt or shoot paper. Paper I agree the 6.5 is better but on game the 7-08 still trumps the creed. In Palma brass with a 168 vld a 25" barreled hunting rifle 2850 is easily achievable with rl 17. Can get 10+ firings with tight pockets. No reason for the added recoil if shooting paper however.

 

[slm9s]

My truck-axle barreled 7-08 has a very accurate node right at 2650 with the 168 berger. It shoots em tight, but kind of slow. Although that's supersonic to 1350 yards according to my strelok+. From your guys' experience, maybe I should switch to the 162 amax and rl17 now that they're making the amax again, and see if it is as accurate.

 

[XTR]

I have a 7-08 that I built for a hunting rifle. For a hunting rifle I love it. To the distances that are ethical for people to be shooting at animals (out to 500 or so) It will take down just about anything east of the Front Range in a short action package with better BCs and lower recoil than a 30 with the same or similar weight bullets (I like 140s for hunting); and the difference in windage compared to other offerings isn't really significant when it comes to putting a good hit in the vitals; and I'm told that there are some local types out west that like it for elk.

That said, when it comes to a target round, energy on target isn't a concern, but increased recoil or lowered BC when compared to the 6.5 or 6s and the lack of case capacity to run with the 284s and bigger it's just not something I'd build for myself as a target rifle in any kind of competition shooting scenario except maybe silhouettes where it may strike a good balance of recoil vs energy needed to knock over the plates.

 

[holstil]

If it just comes down to BC, it may be a toss up with barrel life favoring the 7mm in light of the 150 class bullets.

I want to see apples to apples so to speak. Lets see what Bryan comes up with in regard to BC values in each cartridge's bullet weight in their perspective wheelhouses.

 

[Raptor]

BCoats, you missed my first post. I shoot a 284 and it pushes bullets fast enough to go out to a mile. We shoot steel regularly out to 1350+. Like I said you will have a hard time beating a 7MM (284) for long range shooting.

 

[XTR]

If it just comes down to BC, it may be a toss up with barrel life favoring the 7mm in light of the 150 class bullets.

I want to see apples to apples so to speak. Lets see what Bryan comes up with in regard to BC values in each cartridge's bullet weight in their perspective wheelhouses.

Target shooting comes down to MV, BC, and recoil that you can handle. Hunting you have to factor in energy on target.

You don't have wait for Bryan, you can plug the numbers into JBM and and have your answers in a couple of minutes.

 

[holstil]

If it just comes down to BC, it may be a toss up with barrel life favoring the 7mm in light of the 150 class bullets.

I want to see apples to apples so to speak. Lets see what Bryan comes up with in regard to BC values in each cartridge's bullet weight in their perspective wheelhouses.

Target shooting comes down to MV, BC, and recoil that you can handle. Hunting you have to factor in energy on target.

You don't have wait for Bryan, you can plug the numbers into JBM and and have your answers in a couple of minutes.

Agreed, I don't have the numbers I'd like to see yet.

Looking at two possible bullets, that IMO, better fit some of our interests.
I believe Bryan will be testing BCB 6.5mm 155's and 7mm 156's. The numbers may be out there already, I dont' have them and I haven't seen real world #'s discussed here yet. Might be something the OP wants to hear.

Just tire kickin in the winter time for conversation.

Jim