Can't be me! I'm not bald or skinny! And I have a nose!
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
Manufacturers issue warnings for a reason. How many times must they do so?I wonder how many more times I'll have to provide these links!!!???
5.56 vs .223 - What You Know May Be Wrong - LuckyGunner.com Labs
Andrew of Lucky Gunner Labs explores the differences between .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO ammunition - and the results may surprise you!www.luckygunner.com
223 -vs- 5.56: FACTS and MYTHS – Ultimate Reloader
ultimatereloader.com
I haven’t read the entire thread so someone please correct me if this is a repeat or if I’m wrong.
My understanding of the danger of shooting 5.56 in 223 is basically one dimension, free bore length. The 5.56 has more free bore than the 223. 5.56 rounds that chamber in a 5.56 gun will have enough bullet jump to not cause excess pressure. A 5.56 round could be too long for a 223 chamber and end up with the bullet engaging the rifling causing excess pressure. Of course as reloaders, we can do the same thing if we’re not paying attention to our bullet seating depths.
So, some 5.56 rounds may be perfectly safe in 223 chambers, or, they might be perfectly dangerous. Us reloaders have the knowledge and tools to figure this out. Average Joe shooter who buys a 223 thinking he can buy cheap 5.56 ammo is taking a big chance and could get very unlucky.
My understanding of the danger of shooting 5.56 in 223 is basically one dimension, free bore length. The 5.56 has more free bore than the 223. 5.56 rounds that chamber in a 5.56 gun will have enough bullet jump to not cause excess pressure. A 5.56 round could be too long for a 223 chamber and end up with the bullet engaging the rifling causing excess pressure. Of course as reloaders, we can do the same thing if we’re not paying attention to our bullet seating depths.
So, some 5.56 rounds may be perfectly safe in 223 chambers, or, they might be perfectly dangerous. Us reloaders have the knowledge and tools to figure this out. Average Joe shooter who buys a 223 thinking he can buy cheap 5.56 ammo is taking a big chance and could get very unlucky.
Apparently my mid 70s vintage Rem model 700 Varmint Special chambered in .223 Rem has sufficient free bore, as chambering 5.56 (mostly Lake City) has never been a problem, and the LC and other 5.56 rounds I have shot do just fine, as do the handloads made from military brass. As a matter of fact, the only rounds that ever misbehaved were commercial .223 Rem (can't remember the brand) that I bought one 20 round box of years ago; 2 blown primers out of 20 rounds. If it chambers as smoothly as factory .223, I don't get excited when I substitute 5.56 in that rifle.
"If it chambers as smoothly as factory .223, I don't get excited when I substitute 5.56 in that rifle."
YUUP!!!
So you didn't read the link I provided! Good job!!!
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
Look - you have had good results shooting .556 out of your .223. Many (if not most) guns chambered in .223 will safely shoot .556, though at higher pressure. But those statements will often bring on reminders from others that it might not always be as safe as you might lead other people to believe. Bolt guns can handle pressure (as a rule) significantly better than A/R's - so more reason for warnings.
I did read your posts. You choose to believe a garage reloader whose' own information underlines that it is not safe in all chambers. Lucky Gunner is a seller of ammunition and (with no hesitation), I'll believe the manufacturers of the guns, barrels, reamers and gunsmiths who make products and whom know the limitations of their products when not used in accordance for which they were designed over your "professionals". When a guy starts dropping 77 or 80 grain .556 into a .223 - one is getting closer to having problems. Guns are proofed to take pressures much higher than which they are designed to run under normal circumstances. The higher the pressure you run - the higher the likelihood of a pressure problem of catastrophic nature.
If you truly believe no guns have blown up over this issue - you just don't know what you don't know. And you are RIGHT that manufacturers warnings are because of lawyers. Somebody has to get sued every time somebody does something stupid - despite having been warned.
That said - I'm glad your .556 ammo is working out for you.
x3. I have bought a few cases of Norma TAC233 with the 55gr fmj. Pulled em all and replaced them with Nosler Varmageddons. They’ll go 1/2” in my National Match rifle.
People seem to forget SAAMI spec for the 223 is 55k CUP. Most magnums are 65k. The lower spec is due to the older actions this was being used in at the time.
"You choose to believe a garage reloader". Oh, okay, so I'm supposed to believe you?
Why then are there so many post's in this thread and other's from folks who rebuke the claim to not shoot 5.56 in a .223?
"warnings are because of lawyers".
Like the warning tags on hair driers to not use them while showering?
The stupid should be a dying breed but we put warning labels on stuff to help them continue on!
Go figure!
And I declare that you did not read this whole post and or the links I provided otherwise you would realize that your statement about "higher" pressures is based on a lack of knowledge on how ammo is pressure tested.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
Hey - if you aren't going to believe the folks who make the products who issue their own warnings - I KNOW you aren't going to believe I say those warnings exist or why they might make such warnings - or whether there is validity in their doing so. I'm not trying to change YOUR mind on anything.
And I'm not even going to get debate why you shouldn't take a hairdryer into the shower.
I did read your links - and I think you should read them again - especially where they warn about pressure differences in chambers. Maybe you skipped that? But if you are going to use that to show me I'm wrong - and it says what I told you - what is up with that?
If a manufacturer publishes pressures and a reloading manual publishes projected pressures for their loads - I don't need to have knowledge on how they tested. I want to know the results. But if you have a conspiracy theory on that or something - I'd like to hear about it.
Yeah, I must be super naïve.I can remember back to when I was naive enough to participate in these types of disagreements.
"I don't need to have knowledge on how they tested".
Man! Where's Jeff Foxworthy when ya need 'im?! I'm sure he has a sign for this!
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I think the gist of what everyone is debating is whether it is Ok for all .223 guns to shoot all .556 as some readers believe to be o.k. - versus some of the chambers being outright dangerous with certain .556.
For example, I bought a .223 Match A/R barrel from Krieger a few years ago - and the person on the phone STRONGLY advised me to NOT shoot .556, particularly heavy bullets. They surely know that they could chamber their barrels in a Wylde-type chamber to give them extra wiggle-room - but they choose to machine a true match chamber with that particular barrel configuration. They are not alone. I'll take their word for it on the warnings- but that is not to say I can't get away with shooting light (short) bullets. Some true match chambers (like this Krieger) are throated to where a long bullet will be jammed in the throat when chambered, creating potentially dangerous pressure spikes.
In mass-produced factory actions - I would think that just about any manufacturer out there who doesn't want to get sued over their guns blowing up is going to throat them to accommodate long bullets, assuming guys will be shooting .556 out of their guns. Accuracy gets second place. They know that their insurer will try to settle out of court and give away money to settle a case, costing them increased premiums even if they can show the gun owner disobeyed their warnings and that they may have won the lawsuit if it had been pursued in a more expensive court setting. So yeah - "most" guns, yours included, are probably safe. But not all guns out there - for sure. I have a Remington 700 Varmint Special and they are strong - but not too strong to not blow up. Even with a pressure spike from shooting heavy loads with jammed bullets, the guns can usually still take the pressure. I once saw a semi-auto rifle completely rip open and injure the shooter. I never thought that level of destruction on a rimfire was possible till I saw it. I think it is worthy to remember that back when your rifle was built - almost no one was shooting 80 grain bullets. I'd not want to be the one to try it in your rifle. But someone else might.
All I can contribute here is that the second barrel on my 223 bolt gun was chambered with a real tight short chamber that I didn’t ask for. I would not have wanted to fire a 5.56 round in it. I had it opened up and probably would shoot a 5.56 round in it now. But, I have never fired a store bought round in either barrel, so it’s a moot point.
Do I think a fellow could shoot a 5.56 round in a 223 safely. How about ‘probably’, but I’m a long term reloader, so I’d check the chamber and ammo before I did it. I don’t like surprises.
This is an argument that will never be agreed upon. We probably will never have the precise answer to can we or can we not.
Do I think a fellow could shoot a 5.56 round in a 223 safely. How about ‘probably’, but I’m a long term reloader, so I’d check the chamber and ammo before I did it. I don’t like surprises.
This is an argument that will never be agreed upon. We probably will never have the precise answer to can we or can we not.
Steve Donlon
Gold $$ Contributor
It's not that it could kill you or blow up your rifle, it's that no good will come from shooting 556 AR ammo in a bolt gun. it's much smarter to reload a longer bullet and seat the bullet closer to the lands then you will be able to put the bullet in the same hole if you take the time and put in the effort to reload. Burn up 556 ammo in a good bolt gun but why? I think most people on this forum will understand why it's not a good option even if you can.
Again, I say that a rifle chambered for .223 won't know the difference if 5.56 is shot through it...as long as it chambers correctly, meaning no hard bolt levering.
I have shot just over 1000 rounds through this rifle with over half being 5.55 factory ammo. Shoots sub-MOA almost every time.
The difference between the two is negligible. It's how and where they are measured. Not negating the throat differences. They are different but it doesn't mean you can't shoot 5.56 in a .223 chambered rifle.
.
This has never really made sense to me. So my 223 chambered rifle is gonna blow up from 556 but the exact same action is safe with 308 and 300 win mag? Only difference is a smaller bolt face which means there is more metal in the bolt amd this stronger. Factory ammo is also wimpy. I doubt jamming into the lands is going to blow you up since the loads aint near max to begin with. Either way, 223 is abundant so silly to worry about it.
Downhill
Gold $$ Contributor
Has anyone seen a maximum pressure rating on a firearm's chamber and bolt? Not trying to argue either side, just curious. I know and can read the pressure statements in reloading manuals. Have seen all the warnings on the 556/223 debate. But honestly in a 223 FTR 7 or 6.5 twist I am sure the pressure for a 90 grain bullet touching the lands would exceed 556 pressure. Not trying to pick a side but just wondering.
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