45 colt accuracy issues
- Thread starter tw1854
- Start date
ELR LVR
Silver $$ Contributor
I dont remember my powder used
but I had very good luck with 230 gr cast .452" round nose in both 45 LC and 1911
Confirmed groove diameter with calipers .451 and double checked with slug through the barrel .451
Shot Winchester and S&B both 250 grain and one other 200 grain but can't remember the brand right off. No major issues with the previous ammo, roughly 2 inch spread at 50 yards, I've had both a red dot and a scope on this rifle, (not together lol) shot at rest with sled bolted to table and rifle clamped to sled so no movement
charlie b
Gold $$ Contributor
If you want to stay with cast bullets this is the place to get info.
As some have mentioned fit of cast is key. Second is hardness. If pushing them hard then gas checks are recommended. Some of us have shot more cast bullets than jacketed. I'd also recommend jacketed until you get the hang of it. If you aren't pushing them hard the copper plated bullets work well for less expensive fun. I liked Berry's and Rainier.
The 7 1/2" .45LC Ruger I had loved heavy loads. I used bullets cast from Lee molds and not sized, wheel weight lead. I used Blue Dot for a while but it was position sensitive, ie, it didn't fill the case enough. If tipped forward before firing the flash hole would be uncovered and it would become very erratic. You can use a very small amount of dacron fill to prevent that (1/2gn) I also liked AA9 and 2400 for heavy loads. Lyman's or Sierra's data was always a good place to start for me.
As some have mentioned fit of cast is key. Second is hardness. If pushing them hard then gas checks are recommended. Some of us have shot more cast bullets than jacketed. I'd also recommend jacketed until you get the hang of it. If you aren't pushing them hard the copper plated bullets work well for less expensive fun. I liked Berry's and Rainier.
The 7 1/2" .45LC Ruger I had loved heavy loads. I used bullets cast from Lee molds and not sized, wheel weight lead. I used Blue Dot for a while but it was position sensitive, ie, it didn't fill the case enough. If tipped forward before firing the flash hole would be uncovered and it would become very erratic. You can use a very small amount of dacron fill to prevent that (1/2gn) I also liked AA9 and 2400 for heavy loads. Lyman's or Sierra's data was always a good place to start for me.
Be very careful. Just because your particular model gun is also chambered in more powerful loads does not mean you can load up the 45 Colt in your gun. Gun makers might use better material and heat treatment in the gun chambered in the powerful loads.
There is a lot of data that is listed for certain models of Ruger pistols in 45 Colt. I would stay away from those loads in your gun. There is tons of good reliable data for the 45 Colt. The old standby powder is Unique. If you can locate some Unique and some good cast bullets I believe you will see a good improvement.
There is a lot of data that is listed for certain models of Ruger pistols in 45 Colt. I would stay away from those loads in your gun. There is tons of good reliable data for the 45 Colt. The old standby powder is Unique. If you can locate some Unique and some good cast bullets I believe you will see a good improvement.
Good deal. I have made and shot cast bullets for about 20 years now. I'd still suggest grabbing some jacketed, plated, possibly powder coated cast to test until you start getting the hang of everything.
One thing that will destroy rifle cast bullet accuracy in my experience is a crimp. Use as little as needed to straighten the flare out. I switched from lubing to powder coating my bullets a couple years about and they are much more forgiving.
A good crimp is necessary in any lever action rifle, PERIOD!
There is ample .45 Colt (Rifle) Data. The rifle loads need to be sufficient power to seal the chamber, we experienced a bit of blowback with our rifle.
I think the real issue here is a poor powder choice. Trail Boss may be great for some medium Cowboy Action loads but not a real rifle load.
As mentioned above, use the coated bullets.
There is ample .45 Colt (Rifle) Data. The rifle loads need to be sufficient power to seal the chamber, we experienced a bit of blowback with our rifle.
I think the real issue here is a poor powder choice. Trail Boss may be great for some medium Cowboy Action loads but not a real rifle load.
As mentioned above, use the coated bullets.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
That’s why I said “Do some Research”. I’m glad I did. The 45 Colt is pretty anemic in a modern rifle.
Many years ago, I bought a modern Miroku made 1886 Winchester in 45/70. I made a call to Winchester and got ahold of tech in engineering. He said it was fine to shoot the hotter “Marlin loads” in my gun. I did some testing and it worked great! The only problem was that the heavy loads and the steel butt plate kicked my ass!
ALWAYS be careful, for sure! Research is your friend!
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Lots of reasons to suspect the bullets, the loading, the powder and the shooting method. All good reasons to just start over at the beginning.
Lead alloy bullets harden, soften and change shape over time. Sounds like those may be years old based on how you got them. Lube that has dried out is useless.
New brass is always way too tight of diameter at the neck. Getting a proper and consistent flare is impossible unless trimmed to the same length. Same goes for a decent crimp. If you did not include that in case prep before loading, it’s part of the problem. Even with new brass. The base of the bullets will be suspect.
Without chronograph data it’s hard to say. Trail boss is impossible to meter through any measure. So if you’re not weighing each load, you’ll have problems. There also seems to be a sweet spot for load density. Loaded too loose or packed too tight, you get high ES/SD numbers.
You mentioned bolting the rest to the bench, then clamping the rifle to the rest to insure absolutely no movement. Thats counter productive and known to brake things like scopes. A lever action basically rests on the magazine tube and seems to do better on a soft support. I’ve never shot a tactical lever rifle before, but in general chassis style forearms that aren’t free floated from the barrel or in this case looks like attached to the magazine tube are a little tougher to learn how they handle.
All that said, since factory ammo shoots noticeably better, the problem is likely in the munitions department. Starting with known good components, prepped correctly, will go a long way towards tightening the groups.
Just a few things not mentioned yet
Lead alloy bullets harden, soften and change shape over time. Sounds like those may be years old based on how you got them. Lube that has dried out is useless.
New brass is always way too tight of diameter at the neck. Getting a proper and consistent flare is impossible unless trimmed to the same length. Same goes for a decent crimp. If you did not include that in case prep before loading, it’s part of the problem. Even with new brass. The base of the bullets will be suspect.
Without chronograph data it’s hard to say. Trail boss is impossible to meter through any measure. So if you’re not weighing each load, you’ll have problems. There also seems to be a sweet spot for load density. Loaded too loose or packed too tight, you get high ES/SD numbers.
You mentioned bolting the rest to the bench, then clamping the rifle to the rest to insure absolutely no movement. Thats counter productive and known to brake things like scopes. A lever action basically rests on the magazine tube and seems to do better on a soft support. I’ve never shot a tactical lever rifle before, but in general chassis style forearms that aren’t free floated from the barrel or in this case looks like attached to the magazine tube are a little tougher to learn how they handle.
All that said, since factory ammo shoots noticeably better, the problem is likely in the munitions department. Starting with known good components, prepped correctly, will go a long way towards tightening the groups.
Just a few things not mentioned yet
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
My 1886 Miroku in 45/70 is very strong but not much free bore so shooting heavy bullets made it a challenge but very accurate and heavy so recoil isn’t bad.
Wayne
I agree, I like to think of 45 colt more like "big girl .22" lol. I also agree that the rifle in theory, "should" be sturdy enough to handle ruger loads however, the manual shows all models ammo not approved for +P or +P+.... having said that, all models including 45-70 are also made from same materials, forged 416 stainless receivers and 410 stainless barrels, with only barrel lengths varying by models. The obvious differences with throat, neck, chamber and bore for different calibers are clear but not sure on any barrel thickness differences across the shoulder, shank or length of barrel to accommodate the higher powered rounds. All that to say I definitely did some research but with it being a new ish released rifle and me being new to loading, I'll stay within the safe, published load data for standard rounds and wait for someone more experienced to test the limits/durability of the firearm itself lol. It's a fun gun and pleasure to shoot, not for hunting or any purpose aside from my own amusement.
Attachments
Crimp was my first adjustment, from very heavy crimp to very light crimp because my research led me to believe the same using cast projectiles. I figured being new to loading that it had to be something not set correctly so I worked backwards from crimp, flare, seating depth all the way to the full length sizing die. Even tried cleaning the projectiles, running them dry, lubed, old and dirty but no change in accuracy lol. I did go ahead and order some hornady xtp 250 grain .452 and titegroup but unique and blue dot were out of stock so I couldn't make the best of my hazmat fee lol.
kelbro
Silver $$ Contributor
Is it possible that the barrel is starting to lead up? I didn't see how many cast loads that you have fired. Sometimes mixing cast and jacketed starts to build up layers or copper and lead in the barrel.
Do you have access to a borescope? I can usually see leading with a very powerful bore light, especially in a pistol. Rifles will often lead past mid-barrel due to running out of lube.
Do you have access to a borescope? I can usually see leading with a very powerful bore light, especially in a pistol. Rifles will often lead past mid-barrel due to running out of lube.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Perfect! Despite my info, you did your research and took the safe path for your gun! Good job! Time to try some plated and jacketed bullets.
Excellent read! Very clear, easy to understand! Even though it's not a revolver, the same still applies. The throat is one thing I have not directly checked. Even though I did slug the barrel, would and undersized throat been made apparent? Or would the rifling have already made its mark and compressed the projectile? For what its worth i beat the projectile in from muzzle towards chamber. Not entirely sure this was the correct way but saw a few videos doing this and it was easier than disassembly lol
I did check just to be on the safe side and cleaned after every 5 test rounds. Finally had a use for that Amazon borescope I ordered many years ago to find a bolt i dropped into a truck frame lol
I usually try to have a very clear understanding of what I'm doing before I do it..... especially when it comes to explosions that close to my face lol. Ive got some hornady xtp on order along with titegroup so it's a waiting game at the moment
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