44/40 problems

[Hino895]

New navy arms lever 44/40.
New brass.
6.0 gr bullseye 200 gr lead Bullets
Thoughts?

 

[Bill K]

Just thought, but if this is a older model 44/40 those chambers could be a little oversize and will not take loads upwards to the max loads, therefore it will split the case's in the chambers. Are these out of the same chamber or a couple or all of them ? If you can narrow it down to one or two chambers, it might help locate the problem one's.

 

[Hino895]

Same rifle.
Rifle is new manufacture haven’t shot any factory stuff through it yet.

 

[SSL]

View attachment 1205278 New navy arms lever 44/40.
New brass.
6.0 gr bullseye 200 gr lead Bullets
Thoughts?

6.1 grains is maximum for the 200-grain bullet in a .44 Special, a much stouter case than the .44 WCF, according to my Hornady 10th Edition. Bullseye isn't even listed for the .44 WCF. Looks like your charge is too high. It's also possible your chamber is a bit oversize as well.

 

[Hino895]

The load data I was using.

 

[243winxb]

Reduce to 5 grs. Bullseye.

 

[Hino895]

I’m thinking another powder

 

[SSL]

It would be interesting to see what factory ammunition does. You'll need to try it at some point anyway. If it's a chamber problem the manufacturer won't listen to you if you mention handloads. You will have to present them with fired factory cases to prove your point and for them to act on the information.

 

[lawman29]

6.0 of bullseye is okay. but Try unique.

What brand of brass?

Sized before loading?

There is a variation in chambers of 44-40s. Guys will use a variety of different dies to get it right. A photo of a new piece of brass not sized, a new piece sized in your die and one of the fired cases to compare would be helpful. You might be fire-forming...

 

[Knotwild]

Fairly hot load, thin brass?

 

[Twicepop]

Go to John Taffins Sixguns.com, go under Taffin Tests and there is an area that deals exclusively with the 44-40. Also try to find Mike Venturino, he has a lot of info about this caliber as well. From the pictures it looks more like a brass problem than a gun problem

 

[Hino895]

I’m actually traveling now (truck driver)
But it is new brass which I sized before loading it.
Extremely thin brass in my opinion.
I have some once fired brass coming in the mail, should be there when I get back home.
I have numerous powders I just thought bullseye would be a good start.
I’m loading for my nephews Henry 44/40 with no problem but used starline brass right off.

 

[lawman29]

Ken Waters Pet Loads

 

[lawman29]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook

 

[riflewoman]

In my experience 44/40 is very thin brass. When I started loading it, I don’t know how many cases I ruined when I first started, most due to collapsing the case wall. What was the make of the brass?

 

[GotRDid]

Try TiteGroup, and if you wish, I can send you some cases to test with.
GotRDid.

 

[Hino895]

Gotrdid I have titegroup as I use it in 45acp.
I have some once fired cases coming I’m hoping it was just the powder.

 

[jds holler]

My Lyman 49 shows more velocity and less pressure with Unique. Matter of fact, Bullseye shows highest pressure of all powders listed.

I'm no hater of Bullseye, but you might lighten it up a bit. jd

 

[Ggmac]

View attachment 1205278 New navy arms lever 44/40.
New brass.
6.0 gr bullseye 200 gr lead Bullets
Thoughts?

Never , never start at max !

 

[lawman29]

Some more thoughts. The only thing I use Bullseye for is a .38 and 148 wadcutters. Unique is a powder to have on hand to get down and dirty...with a variety of calibers...

Here is some info on rifle data:

Original Winchester 1892 in 44/40: Two best
200 grain Desperado sized .430 - 19.5 gr IMR 4227 - CCI 300 (note: 2400 not...)
200 grain Hornady XTP - 21.0 gr Alliant 2400 - CCI 300 (note: IMR 4227 not...)

Cimarron 1892 in .45 long colt:
Tried four different cast bullets - no love - bad to fair. 250 gr Hornady XTP and 6.4 gr of Tite Group worked (remember this load is for .45 long colt).

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook shows 5.7 start to 6.4 max 200 grain bullet and 5.2 gr - 5.8 max 205 grain bullet for 44/40. The difference is the bullet mold. These are for a handgun. For a rifle they do not list titegroup in their recipes. In addition if your Navy Arms is a replica 1873 action that is a weaker action compared to an 1892 and requires more caution...

Ken Waters:
Hornady 200 JHP - 9.0 Unique, 18 gr 4227, 19 gr 2400 (most accurate load in Win 1873)
Cast Bullet 200 gr: 9.0 Unique and 18 gr 4227 (most accurate cast bullet load)