400 yards? With an AR?

[hoz53]

I can't find any marking on the upper other than a capital A ~1.5" in front of the charging handle. That's on the Troy upper. The BCM rifle is marked 5.56 NATO on the frame on the mag well. I didn't check the barrel as it was a complete BCM rifle. I've emailed BCM with the S/N and asked for info on specs. I've done the same with Troy although I have nothing to give them so I'm sure it is hopeless. I'll have to try the rod and brush for twist rate.

My thought was just that. Go to the 25M with my 10/22 on order and after that try some of it with the AR. I know it will be more than the 10/22 but my recollection of my one time shooting an AR was it wasn't at all unpleasant to shoot. But that was 50 years ago at Fort Hood.

i always use the rod/brush when i want to find twist. its quickest for me. do it mabie 3 times and average.

 

[Leo_B]

Well, the nearest NRL22 is 93 miles one way. No CMP in Texas or LA that I can find. But there is Smallbore Silhouette 40 miles one way, sadly through awful Houston traffic there and back. But beggars can't be choosers as they say. But silhouette shooting will be a ways away timewise as first I've got to become a good enough shot to at least hit some of them. Plus learning wind adjustment etc.

As to guns, I did just order the 10/22 to have the upgraded features I'd have upgraded on my 1103 anyway. And I'm sure the 15-22 probably shoots better than I do or will. I kind of like the Tippmann rifles and have been looking at that for my fall rifle purchase. I'll have to include 15-22 in the suspects pool too I guess.

 

[std7mag]

Going to an F-Class match, yeah you'll see kids shooting 600 yards open sights with an AR.

Go to the local range and you'd believe that the AR can't shoot past 25 yards, and only on the pistol side of the range.
Oh, and apparently it's required that you do mag dumps while bump firing.

 

[Leo_B]

Oh, I believe the AR can shoot, it's me I'm more leery about. I don't know that I could see 600 yards, much less shoot it with open sights. But I figure on learning a lot during my Appleseed 25M in April I can translate into the AR and longer distances. LOTS to learn though.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Oh, I believe the AR can shoot, it's me I'm more leery about. I don't know that I could see 600 yards, much less shoot it with open sights. But I figure on learning a lot during my Appleseed 25M in April I can translate into the AR and longer distances. LOTS to learn though.

If you can see a 6” black bullseye at 100 you will see the ones at longer range too. The targets you shoot with irons at distance should be scaled to the black bull looks the same at all distances. A 6” black at 100 yards looks the same as a 36” black at 600 yards, or an 18” black at 300.

 

[Leo_B]

If you can see a 6” black bullseye at 100 you will see the ones at longer range too. The targets you shoot with irons at distance should be scaled to the black bull looks the same at all distances. A 6” black at 100 yards looks the same as a 36” black at 600 yards, or an 18” black at 300.

With my old eyes probably not. With my new and improved eyes maybe so, have to test them and see. My concern would be more just seeing to find the target at distance, not discerning the bullseye. But we'll start with the 25M and work from there. If the rifle ever arrives.

 

[jelenko]

As Jeff said, the sight picture at 600 is no different than the sight picture at 100.

 

[Oso]

There is an “Project Appleseed - Texas” group on Facebook (see link).
Project Appleseed - Texas

There is NLR 22 just north of Houston.
Trinity Armory - NLR22 (Cleveland, TX)

Bayou Rifles located in Houston
Bayou Rifles
There are several types of rimfire shooting at Bayou Rifles. It is a private club in Houston (2 range locations), but competitions are open the registration by non-members. Their primary rimfire range is the Addicks Range, which is just a couple miles east of intersection of I10 and Hwy 6. This range is only 100 yard max, but set up for rimfire and silhouette shooting. The Juliff range, located 20 miles south of Downtown, has ranges from 25 yards out to 1,000 yards. This is great for long range precision & F-class. Unfortunately, No steel targets, no dynamic shooting, etc. so no PRS or NRL shooting.

American Shooting Center - public range offering distances out to 600 yards.

Navasota Texas has some shooting competitions.

 

[Leo_B]

Juliff is my side of Houston. The others are all opposite side or for Cleveland opposite side and a good ways farther. And round trips through Purgatory make anything far less enjoyable sadly.

 

[Jeff Porter]

American Shooting Center is by Katy. I have shot there while in Houston for business. Sounds like you have a plan. Start with the rimfire and move out and up to centerfire as you gain confidence.

 

[Leo_B]

Further checking shows both barrels are marked just under the front edge of the handguard with "5.56 NATO 1/7" So very similar if not identical actual barrels. I'll be checking but I believe the 5.56 chamber is rated for higher pressure meaning any ammo is ok to use although .223 isn't quite an exact dimensional fit for that chamber. And both are equally (a little too?) fast twist rate.

Both have flip up sights. I will probably take them and shoot first at 25yds where it's possible I might actually hit the target a time or two. If one does better than the other, and if I'm capable of telling that, I'll pursue taking it longer. Or maybe both at 25yds then 50yds and maybe even 100yds with the flip-ups to compare the two. I think I can do whatever I decide to do actually.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

Further checking shows both barrels are marked just under the front edge of the handguard with "5.56 NATO 1/7" So very similar if not identical actual barrels. I'll be checking but I believe the 5.56 chamber is rated for higher pressure meaning any ammo is ok to use although .223 isn't quite an exact dimensional fit for that chamber. And both are equally (a little too?) fast twist rate.

Both have flip up sights. I will probably take them and shoot first at 25yds where it's possible I might actually hit the target a time or two. If one does better than the other, and if I'm capable of telling that, I'll pursue taking it longer. Or maybe both at 25yds then 50yds and maybe even 100yds with the flip-ups to compare the two. I think I can do whatever I decide to do actually.

1/7 is a great twist rate for an AR, you can shoot any weight bullet that your chamber freebore allows without issues.

Since you are shooting flip-up sights, make sure to scale your target aiming black with the distance. Otherwise you are likely to not be centered on the target even if you do the correct come ups on your flip-up sights.

The aiming black in service rifle competitions (which was historically shot with iron sights) is around 6.5 inches in diameter at 100 yards. This is an ideal size aiming black for iron sights at 100 yards.

If you use a target with a 6.5 inch aiming black at 100 yards, and get a good zero with your flip up sights, you should use a target with a 26 inch (6.5 * 4) aiming black at 400 yards.

This is a key difference shooting iron sights at distances, as compared using rifle scopes. With a scope you can always aim for the center of the target, independent of the target size, and be confident with hitting the center (assuming your comeups are correct for the distance).

With iron sights, consistent scaling of the aiming black with the distance is an key part of a repeatable sight picture. Comeups are of course important too, but scaling the aiming black for the distance will make shooting irons easier.

 

[Albany Mountain]

Appleseed is a training event and not necessarily a national championship. Go to learn how versus figuring out a perfect firearm for it.

 

[Jeff Porter]

1:7 is great. I shoot tiny groups with 52’s through 90 gr with a 1:7 .223 barrels. Don’t over think it. Just have fun and learn something at the Appleseed shoot.

 

[RegionRat]

Anything 55 grain ball ammo and up will work in your 1:7.

Magazine length ammo traditionally ends about 77 grains.

When you hear about SMK 80 and such, keep in mind that those are often loaded too long for the magazine and are single fed.

You may want to try small purchases of inexpensive M-193 clone ammo just to get started.

Don't bulk buy till you know it works for your purposes.

You may encounter a problem with some ammo meant for slower twists such as full pressure varmint ammo in the 40 grain range. Those may disintegrate in flight statistically, while some may reach the target.

Once you are in the groove, you will want to consider better ammo along the lines of target stuff in the 69 to 77 grain range, but you don't need to rush out and run that stuff for a 25M distance.

Go have fun and learn the ropes. See where things point you. Carpe Diem!

 

[Leo_B]

I'll be doing the 25M with my on order 10/22, if they ever send it. Then I'll (hopefully) transfer what I learn there to the AR on my own. At some point I'm thinking I'll try a rimfire KD. And if I don't completely fail at that then I'll try a full KD with the AR. I'll try less expensive ammo options up to 100-200 yards in the AR. And better options if/when I shoot 400 yards KD. Many adventures await.

 

[Andy Legg]

I'll be doing the 25M with my on order 10/22, if they ever send it. Then I'll (hopefully) transfer what I learn there to the AR on my own. At some point I'm thinking I'll try a rimfire KD. And if I don't completely fail at that then I'll try a full KD with the AR. I'll try less expensive ammo options up to 100-200 yards in the AR. And better options if/when I shoot 400 yards KD. Many adventures await.

The AAC 75-77 grain 5.56 options will work well for you if you have at least a 16” 1/8 twist. It is sub Moa on short strings of fire….. 60 shot Matches , you’ll have a few slow or fast ones the will open the group up a bit but nothing to worry about.

 

[dantiff2]

Our range has 1, 2 and 4 moa steel targets set at 400 yards. 69 gn Matchkings from a 20" AR is fun. I used to shoot with a 16x Super Sniper scope and the 2 moa target was a piece of cake and could got most of my hits on the 1 moa target but when I stepped up to a 24x Strike Eagle scope- I gained way more hits on the 1 moa target. It's not the rifle so much as it is the shooter and ability to shoot the rifle. This particular rifle holds at or under 3/4 moa at one hundred yards with a 2.5 lb 2 stage JP trigger spring kit that really made it shine!

 

[Leo_B]

The AAC 75-77 grain 5.56 options will work well for you if you have at least a 16” 1/8 twist. It is sub Moa on short strings of fire….. 60 shot Matches , you’ll have a few slow or fast ones the will open the group up a bit but nothing to worry about.

What are AAC options and where do I find info on them? Thanks.

 

[RegionRat]

Lets see if the link works.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/amm...r_multi_v2=5.56x45mm&manufacturer_v2=AAC+Ammo