Thanks for the intel. I wasn’t aware of this. The Sierra rep stated the 158 JSP is designed around 357 from a rifle, so I imagine it’s the best suited to hold up in this scenario. The 250 sub-x I can’t say. I was told it’s been tested to 1600 fps, but no idea if it’ll hold up to the forcing cone
.350 Legend from a handgun.
- Thread starter 59f100292
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I have been shooting .500 S&W, 45/70 and 30/30 from pistols. They are a lot of fun for big game. The below web site has 350L loads.
Shooter's Reference Load Data for .350 Legend
Thanks for the link. Presumably, all that data is from rifle length barrels. I'm hoping to find some intel on where to start from pistol length barrels. I may be making too much out of it though. I picked up some 4227 today and will start there as I have managed to dig up published data for both the 158 and 250. Just need to find a chrono to borrow as my magnetospeed isn't meant for handguns.I have been shooting .500 S&W, 45/70 and 30/30 from pistols. They are a lot of fun for big game. The below web site has 350L loads.
Shooter's Reference Load Data for .350 Legend
shootersreference.com
Yes, the info is just for rifles that said when shooting from a pistol FPS will be less. I found when shooting a 45/70 or a 30/30 from a BFR 7.5" revolver you could see a decrease in FPS from 100FPS to 300FPS depending on load and powder. When I shot a .500 S&W mag pistol load from my carbine, I found the FPS could increase from 100FPS to 350FPS.
Keep in mind, 357 pressure max is 35,000 psi and 350 Legend is over 62,000 psi. Quite a difference for a bullet designed for 357
That's an interesting point. The Sierra rep discussed the velocity window we figured we'd be hitting the target with, but pressure was never considered in the discussion. What would be the repercussions here? Bullet coming apart after leaving the barrel? Being compromised while in the barrel and coming apart out side?
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As I said before, my concern would be deforming the jacket as it enters the forcing cone and raising pressures. If Sierra is ok with it then go for it
A quick update for anyone still following along. After some experimentation I managed to get my magnetospeed sporter rigged up to reliably read on the revolver. I've only used IMR4227 so far, with both the 158GN Sierra's and the 250 gn Hornady Sub-x. I haven't maxed out pressure signs, but have shot the 158's up to 1740 fps. When comparing my velocities to the published velocities, I'm coming in 500 fps short for a given powder charge. With the 250's I have only seen 1140 fps, although I have not loaded as far up the scale and expect to see higher speeds before seeing any pressure signs. For a given load, the speeds are coming back at 400 fps below book numbers. Neither Hornady nor Sierra state what length barrel they used.
All in all I'm a bit dissapointed with the speeds. I was hoping to stay closer to 300 fps below book. Other powders may provide better results. That being said, the 158's at 1740 gives a muzzle energy of 1060. This is legal for deer in my state, and ought to provide acceptable results.
The 250's would need to get to approx 1380 fps to match the energy of the 158s at 1740. Given my findings being 400 fps below book speeds, I don't see anyway to achieve that 1380. Again, maybe a different powder will give speeds closer to book. I'll continue to dabble with the 250's as time allows, but atleast for this hunting season, I'll focus on the 158s.
All in all I'm a bit dissapointed with the speeds. I was hoping to stay closer to 300 fps below book. Other powders may provide better results. That being said, the 158's at 1740 gives a muzzle energy of 1060. This is legal for deer in my state, and ought to provide acceptable results.
The 250's would need to get to approx 1380 fps to match the energy of the 158s at 1740. Given my findings being 400 fps below book speeds, I don't see anyway to achieve that 1380. Again, maybe a different powder will give speeds closer to book. I'll continue to dabble with the 250's as time allows, but atleast for this hunting season, I'll focus on the 158s.
223762
Silver $$ Contributor
Try the Hornady 165 ftx bullets. I’m getting them around 1700fps. Mainly I just shoot the Hornady black 150grn ammo. I’m getting around 1880fps. That is very impressive from a 6.5 inch barrel. Hitting with around 1200lbs of energy. Hits harder than a 44 mag with less recoil. Not counting the buffalo bore stuff
Sorry, just wanted to clarify, are you getting 165/1700fps and 150/1880 from a handgun?
Another update after a slightly frustrating summer. As per usual, I drug my feet on sorting this out and shot rifles all summer, and now hunting season has snuck up on me. I spent the last month of spare time messing with the 350. Shooting H110 and 4227 with 158gn .357 Sierra JSP, and hornady 250 sub-x. The sub-x was doing ok, holding its own for velocity improvements, then one day it key holed. Interestingly, at 25 yards, all of the rounds had deflected to the same direction. I’m not sure what exactly this tells me, as I’ve always seen key hole pictures with impacts at random orientation. Either way, I abandoned the 250s. The 158’s I could get up to 1650 to low 1700s. Of note (at least from what I expect from rifles,) I’m getting an ES over 7 rounds in excess of 100FPS. I’m not sure whether this is normal for a handgun or not. That said, some rounds would break 1700, some would not. With that velocity being lower than I originally expected to reach, I called Sierra to ask whether that range of speed was more suited for the JSP, or the JHC with a cavity. I don’t want to shoot the JSP under speed and have it bore through a deer with out expanding. After talking with them I decided to grab a box of the JHC. Further, since our prior conversation a year+ back, they had released a 155gn .355 bullet specifically for the 350L. I have always disregarded it as another rifle round that would require too high of speeds to perform in the revolver, but he said it should open down to about 1600 fps. He also mentioned that it would be more accurate as their handgun rounds are manufactured to a certain accuracy standard at 50 yards, while their rifle bullets we’re held to a standard at 200 yards. While interesting, I disregarded the information as I’m well aware the accuracy limitation I’m going to see are of my own shooting, not the quality of the round.
All that said, I swapped the JSP for a JHC, loaded down a hair from where I was shooting the JSP just out of caution and went shooting. After the first 7 round cylinder I was confused and later shocked to find small nearly complete circles/donuts of jacket on the table. As it turns out, for what ever the reason the JHCs are larger diameter than the JSPs and were shaving jacket I assume in the charge hole and falling out or blowing out the gap. I went home and measured some of each, and the largest JHC were .001 larger than the smallest JSP, on average they’re about a half thou larger. I immediately stopped shooting the JHC.
At this point I’m starting from scratch again. I ordered some of the .355 155 sierras, and got to loading. Immediately, with out any real effort the group sizes cut in half. I can’t say whether this is because of the manufacturing quality as mentioned in the phone call, or because the .357s I had been shooting were taking some amount of damage in the charge hole/forcing cone and not flying true. So good news is instant accuracy. The bad news is the velocity dropped was down, 300 and some cases 400 fps under what I was seeing with the JSPs (that 100+ es again). I assume the smaller bullet is sliding down the barrel and not building pressure like the 357s did. In the 1300 and 1400 range the 155s are way under speed/energy I originally set out for from a hunting stand point. I haven’t had time to really work up the ladder and find velocity before maxing pressure. It’s unclear whether I’ll get the 155s up to 1700+ yet.
Further complicating things, with H110 only, and not 4227 at all, there is a considerable amount of gas flowing backwards, leaving soot all the way down the length of the case, soot on the rim of the brass, exiting the rear of the cylinder, sooting up the face of the blast shield, exiting the upper corners of the blast shield and impacting me square in the left cheek. (Right eyed shooter). When using rifle I always consider soot on the case to be a sign of low pressure, which brings up my next problem. Sierra’s load data for the 155/h110 has a max charge of 26.1. Hodgdons load data has a MIN of 26.5. As I’m already above sierras max, and getting gas to the face, I was hesitant to go even higher and risk safety to my face. At this point I emailed both hodgdon and Sierra to very politely question their load data for some guidance on which direction to proceed (or abandon use of h110). Both stood by their data. I’ve talked to enough people shooting h110 to believe hodgdon’s data isn’t an error, and will cautiously continue up in charge to see if it’ll eventually seal the brass.
Very long story short, a year latter I still don’t have a load for hunting in 2 weeks, and I feel like I understand even less about the whole equation than I did when I started. To say this thing has been an ordeal for me would be an understatement, but at least I’m learning.
All that said, I swapped the JSP for a JHC, loaded down a hair from where I was shooting the JSP just out of caution and went shooting. After the first 7 round cylinder I was confused and later shocked to find small nearly complete circles/donuts of jacket on the table. As it turns out, for what ever the reason the JHCs are larger diameter than the JSPs and were shaving jacket I assume in the charge hole and falling out or blowing out the gap. I went home and measured some of each, and the largest JHC were .001 larger than the smallest JSP, on average they’re about a half thou larger. I immediately stopped shooting the JHC.
At this point I’m starting from scratch again. I ordered some of the .355 155 sierras, and got to loading. Immediately, with out any real effort the group sizes cut in half. I can’t say whether this is because of the manufacturing quality as mentioned in the phone call, or because the .357s I had been shooting were taking some amount of damage in the charge hole/forcing cone and not flying true. So good news is instant accuracy. The bad news is the velocity dropped was down, 300 and some cases 400 fps under what I was seeing with the JSPs (that 100+ es again). I assume the smaller bullet is sliding down the barrel and not building pressure like the 357s did. In the 1300 and 1400 range the 155s are way under speed/energy I originally set out for from a hunting stand point. I haven’t had time to really work up the ladder and find velocity before maxing pressure. It’s unclear whether I’ll get the 155s up to 1700+ yet.
Further complicating things, with H110 only, and not 4227 at all, there is a considerable amount of gas flowing backwards, leaving soot all the way down the length of the case, soot on the rim of the brass, exiting the rear of the cylinder, sooting up the face of the blast shield, exiting the upper corners of the blast shield and impacting me square in the left cheek. (Right eyed shooter). When using rifle I always consider soot on the case to be a sign of low pressure, which brings up my next problem. Sierra’s load data for the 155/h110 has a max charge of 26.1. Hodgdons load data has a MIN of 26.5. As I’m already above sierras max, and getting gas to the face, I was hesitant to go even higher and risk safety to my face. At this point I emailed both hodgdon and Sierra to very politely question their load data for some guidance on which direction to proceed (or abandon use of h110). Both stood by their data. I’ve talked to enough people shooting h110 to believe hodgdon’s data isn’t an error, and will cautiously continue up in charge to see if it’ll eventually seal the brass.
Very long story short, a year latter I still don’t have a load for hunting in 2 weeks, and I feel like I understand even less about the whole equation than I did when I started. To say this thing has been an ordeal for me would be an understatement, but at least I’m learning.
One other piece of analysis in retrospect, feel free to correct me on any of this mess; I stopped increasing charge with the 357 JSP when extraction started getting sticky. Of course loading one and shooting one like in a rifle, a certain force to extract is multiplied by 7 in the revolver (assuming shooting a full moon clip). Just interesting to me that if this gun had 6 rounds, I may settle on a certain load limit based on extraction of a full clip, but being that it’s 7 rounds, that same loading would require 18% more force to extract, lowering the charge I would deem excessive. Makes sense, just goes to show me how un-scientific establishing a max charge can be.
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