.350 Legend from a handgun.

[JSH]

I would come real close to recommend a cast bullet myself. Not enough difference in .355 and .357 design wise.
The dang blasted bore size is the killer for me on this cartridge. Maybe some cast sized down may work in your rig?
I accidentally bought some Speer gold dots that were intended for 9mm. They fly well in my GP 6”. As far as expansion and performance on 4 legged critters, I have no experience.

 

[59f100292]

I would come real close to recommend a cast bullet myself. Not enough difference in .355 and .357 design wise.
The dang blasted bore size is the killer for me on this cartridge. Maybe some cast sized down may work in your rig?
I accidentally bought some Speer gold dots that were intended for 9mm. They fly well in my GP 6”. As far as expansion and performance on 4 legged critters, I have no experience.

I hear ya on the note diameter. There’s a few companies that actually sell barrels for a “.358 legend” for use with proper rifle bullets. Mos-tek if I remember right. I always figured if I did a Legend in a rifle that’s what I’d do. In this case rebarreling isn’t really an option

 

[HandgunHTR]

Wow, can't believe I missed this thread.

As far as what powder you want to use, there have been some good responses here. At the end of the day, most magnum handgun powders will work just fine. Most of them were developed for use in the 357, 41, and 44 mags, and the 45 Colt. You will get consistent results. I would shy away from super fast burning powders (red dot, blue dot, etc.) because 1) they won't fill the case properly which can cause inconsistent ignition and 2) small changes can have huge pressure impacts.
H110, W296, AA1680, 4227, etc. will all work great for you.

As far as bullet recommendations, I have had great results with the Hornady FTX and XTP bullets. Multiple kills in handguns and shooting them out of muzzleloaders in calibers from .30 to .45 have made me a believer.

 

[59f100292]

Wow, can't believe I missed this thread.

As far as what powder you want to use, there have been some good responses here. At the end of the day, most magnum handgun powders will work just fine. Most of them were developed for use in the 357, 41, and 44 mags, and the 45 Colt. You will get consistent results. I would shy away from super fast burning powders (red dot, blue dot, etc.) because 1) they won't fill the case properly which can cause inconsistent ignition and 2) small changes can have huge pressure impacts.
H110, W296, AA1680, 4227, etc. will all work great for you.

As far as bullet recommendations, I have had great results with the Hornady FTX and XTP bullets. Multiple kills in handguns and shooting them out of muzzleloaders in calibers from .30 to .45 have made me a believer.

Outstanding input. Thanks

 

[59f100292]

Wow, can't believe I missed this thread.

As far as what powder you want to use, there have been some good responses here. At the end of the day, most magnum handgun powders will work just fine. Most of them were developed for use in the 357, 41, and 44 mags, and the 45 Colt. You will get consistent results. I would shy away from super fast burning powders (red dot, blue dot, etc.) because 1) they won't fill the case properly which can cause inconsistent ignition and 2) small changes can have huge pressure impacts.
H110, W296, AA1680, 4227, etc. will all work great for you.

As far as bullet recommendations, I have had great results with the Hornady FTX and XTP bullets. Multiple kills in handguns and shooting them out of muzzleloaders in calibers from .30 to .45 have made me a believer.

I’ve had some poor experiences with plastic tipped bullets on Powerbelts when hunting with muzzle loafers. I tend to shy away from them as a result. It’s pretty common around here to see people pull the tips out of power belts with pliers before shooting them.

Have you ever had lack of expansion problems with the Hornady tipped offerings?

 

[HandgunHTR]

There is a big difference between the Powerbelts and the FTX bullets. XTPs are pure hollowpoints. The FTX is just an XTP with a soft tip. Both have worked extremely well for me out of multiple handguns and loading in sabots to shoot out of a muzzleloader.

 

[BobT]

Late to the party but a lot of guys are using the 180 grain XTP in the .357 Max with good results. The heaviest offering I see in .355 is the 147 grain XTP so I might start there. I have a .350 Legend in an AR but I haven't decided if I like it enough to handload it or not.

 

[Paul's Black Rifles]

Late to the party but a lot of guys are using the 180 grain XTP in the .357 Max with good results. The heaviest offering I see in .355 is the 147 grain XTP so I might start there. I have a .350 Legend in an AR but I haven't decided if I like it enough to handload it or not.

Somewhere I saw something that mentioned the bore and the stated bullet size was .002 different. In other words to satisfy the regulations it was stated that the bullet diameter is .357 when the bore of the barrel is .355 thus a .002 difference. Is that significant, I don't know. Will it cause a kaboom, I hope not. But I wouldn't go past .002. It could be too much to compress the bullet. If the jacket is too thick or doesn't compress well you could have a higher pressure than you intend.
If you need to know slug the bore.
Remember the Mini 30 some are said to be .308 firing a .311 steel cased bullet and doing it successfully.
Use your good judgement.

Paul

 

[Paul's Black Rifles]

Be careful you only have one face!

 

[Hino895]

I was using 9mm 147 hollow points when I was trying to get 350 legend ARs running.
They didn’t want to run in a AR platform but might be ok in a handgun.

 

[BobT]

Somewhere I saw something that mentioned the bore and the stated bullet size was .002 different. In other words to satisfy the regulations it was stated that the bullet diameter is .357 when the bore of the barrel is .355 thus a .002 difference. Is that significant, I don't know. Will it cause a kaboom, I hope not. But I wouldn't go past .002. It could be too much to compress the bullet. If the jacket is too thick or doesn't compress well you could have a higher pressure than you intend.
If you need to know slug the bore.
Remember the Mini 30 some are said to be .308 firing a .311 steel cased bullet and doing it successfully.
Use your good judgement.

Paul

We had a .257 Weatherby Mark V come in the shop the other day that had been fired with a .300 Winchester Magnum round in the chamber, luckily the action held together and the shooter was not injured. What surprised me the most when I disassembled the rifle was the fact that the bullet exited the bore. What a sad ending for a nice old German Weatherby.

In the Legend I might try the .357 bullet but I would not recommend anyone else do so.

 

[59f100292]

Late to the party but a lot of guys are using the 180 grain XTP in the .357 Max with good results. The heaviest offering I see in .355 is the 147 grain XTP so I might start there. I have a .350 Legend in an AR but I haven't decided if I like it enough to handload it or not.

Forgive my ignorance on the Max, but are these folks shooting from a handgun or rifle?

 

[BobT]

Forgive my ignorance on the Max, but are these folks shooting from a handgun or rifle?

The guys I shoot with all are shooting pistols T/C , Contender and Encore mostly but there is also a rechambered CVA. I do know there are some Max carbines out there too.

 

[59f100292]

I've done some more research on this topic and thought I'd dig up the post and pass along what I've been told if anyone finds it useful in the future.

I called smith and wesson and found that the factory uses 180gn Federals for their testing. They didn't however have any data, or even any recommendation on a bullet that actually performs on game out of their product. Somewhat frustrating.

I called Hornady, and was told in general the FTX and similar bullets intended for the 350L require roughly 1700+ fps to expand as designed. I haven't been able to borrow a handgun chrono yet, but the general consensus online is the revolver produces 1500-1600 fps. The tech actually threw me a curveball and recommended their 250gn Sub-x bullet, as they have tested it up to 1600 FPS. (the load data is actually on their website). So rather than shoot a FTX below its required speed, he suggested a bullet designed to low speed, and just push it into supersonic speeds.

I called Federal, and he suggested somewhat the opposite end of the spectrum weight wise. He said all of their 9mm projectiles are tested to 9mm+P+ speeds and ought to hold up at these 1500+fps speeds. (I'm a bit skeptical)

I called Sierra to discuss their options and was specifically told their 9mm options would not hold up to those speeds. (contrary philosophy to what federal suggested, both could be true just thought it was interesting differences in design from one manufacturer to another) We discussed their Sports master line in .357 and I learned as a generalization, the JPH is intended for .38special revolver velocities, the JHC (cavity) is intended to expand/perform at .357 Mag revolver velocities, and the JSP is intended to perform at .357Mag velocities from a carbine. With that in mind he suggested the JSP. I do like the fact that If I can use the JSP and if I find it over penetrates/under expands, I can step directly down to the JHC in the same family for more rapid expansion. However the sierra tech made a work of caution regarding .357 bullets in the Smith handgun and hinted that they are .355 guns which brings me to a whole other bit of research and data:

Sammi spec is .357+0/-3 which means in theory anything rom .354 to .357 is in spec to shoot. notably .358 would be outside spec. So which is intended to be shot, .355 or .357? Interestingly enough if you look across component offering you will find both .355 and .357 offerings in loaded ammo. Hornady itself sells their 165 FTX as both loaded ammo and components at .355. They also sell their sub-X bullet loose and loaded, and it is .357. Same manufacturer, same cartridge producing factory offerings in two different diameters. I haven't mic'd either bullet yet, but I tend to believe its true as I've shot factory sub-x ammo from the smith revolver, and they actually chambered somewhat snug, and would drag the frame unless you pressed them in that last 1/16th or so. Which brings me to the last bit of info I've learned. At the recommendation of the Sierra tech I cerrosafe'd two chargeholes, and the barrel to be sure they aren't .355 spec'd. Both throats and the barrel lands measured .3575.


All that being said, I'm personally putting the .355/.357 debate to bed for my gun, I'll shoot either. Years ago I read that the ruger single six convertables were theoretically not as accurate as a straight .22LR when shooting .22LR as the gun is bored .224 to shoot WMR, and the LR is .223. With that in mind, I wonder if i'd ever see any accuracy advantage shooting .357 over the looser fitting .355. I suspect I'd never see it, especially in a hand gun.

Hopefully this helps someone in the future. I'll keep it updated as I find time to actually start loading and testing.

Can anyone with quickload advise on powders that get 100% burn in the 7.5" barrel when shooting the 158gn JSP Sierra? Any similar intel on the Hornady 250 Sub-x? I was intending to just start with H110 as I had some but it turns out I'm out.

 

[59f100292]

With a 170 Hornady:
Blue Dot will be completely burnt in 4" of barrel
Lil-gun would be burnt in 6" of barrel
N-110 burnt in 4" of barrel.

H-110 and other magnum powders show low burn rate. Those i listed are your best option and 100% burnt

BTT.

SeaBeeKen, I appreciate your prior help. If you have time to dig up some data for me, would a 158, or 250gn bullet (supersonic) alter the effectiveness of these recommended powders? I imagine the 158 Sierra will produce similar results as the 170 Hornady posted above. I imagine the equation is different when trying to make use of a 250 gn Hornady bullet from the short 7" barrel?

 

[SeabeeKen]

BTT.

SeaBeeKen, I appreciate your prior help. If you have time to dig up some data for me, would a 158, or 250gn bullet (supersonic) alter the effectiveness of these recommended powders? I imagine the 158 Sierra will produce similar results as the 170 Hornady posted above. I imagine the equation is different when trying to make use of a 250 gn Hornady bullet from the short 7" barrel?

I dont know of any 250 gr bullets for use in a 350. Perhaps I missed it but what handgun are you using?
A 158 Sierra .357 bullet should hit 1900 fps in a 7.5" barrel with blue dot but would be max. It should also be 100% burned in 4.7" of barrel and case fill of 90.6% per QL.
We finished testing the 125 Maker bullet in my friends Savage 350L with Alliant 2400 powder and were quite impressed with the accuracy. It ran 2467 fps and grouped .037" and the worst group during testing was .768" at 100 yds. We went a step further out to 300 yds and he was consistently hitting a 6" gong once we figured out the bullet drop which IIRC was about 9".

 

[rockhound78]

Would the 250 sub-x even stabilize?

 

[59f100292]

I dont know of any 250 gr bullets for use in a 350. Perhaps I missed it but what handgun are you using?
A 158 Sierra .357 bullet should hit 1900 fps in a 7.5" barrel with blue dot but would be max. It should also be 100% burned in 4.7" of barrel and case fill of 90.6% per QL.
We finished testing the 125 Maker bullet in my friends Savage 350L with Alliant 2400 powder and were quite impressed with the accuracy. It ran 2467 fps and grouped .037" and the worst group during testing was .768" at 100 yds. We went a step further out to 300 yds and he was consistently hitting a 6" gong once we figured out the bullet drop which IIRC was about 9".

Hornady makes a 250 gun “sub-x” as a component and loose ammo. I spoke with a Hornady tech who said they had tested them to 1600 fps and they held up, so he recommended them at the reduced handgun velocities. There’s not much discussion online about loading for the sub-x and what is out there is based around loading at subsonic speeds. I’m sorta out in left field here taking a projectile intended for subsonic speeds, and shooting it supersonic (or as much as I can get) out of a 7.5” barrel.

The gun is a Smith and Wesson model 350, which is just their 460/500 shooting X-frame, bored and chambered for the 350 legend.

 

[59f100292]

Would the 250 sub-x even stabilize?

I had the same concern. I shot some factory sub-x subsonic ammo and it did seem to stabilize at about 20 feet I was shooting at. It’s been a while since I played around with a stability calculator, but I think increasing the speed should help with stability. Could be wrong. The gun is a 1:16 twist which is what 350 rifles seem to most commonly be. My limited testing seems to show the 7” barrel managed to stabilize it

 

[SeabeeKen]

I dont know if this is a concern or not but there are magnum jacketed bullets for the heavy magnums. I know they recommend them for my 454. They say the standard jackets deform entering the forcing cone of revolvers raising pressures on heavy magnum loads. IIRC this is printed in the 454 Casull section of the Hornady manual. I dont know if this could be a problem in your gun or not. If they are rifle bullets I'd think the jackets are tough enough but handgun bullets in a 350L in a revolver might be a different story. I'd sure watch pressures