338 whisper or …

[nakneker]

Years ago I shot a surpressed 338 whisper. It was a lot of fun and I’ve wanted to build my own for a few years now. It seems like the big caliber whispers peaked in popularity 5-8 years ago and have kind of died off a bit or at least I don’t see them mentioned as often now days. I searched here for threads concerning the 338 whisper and other large caliber shorties, found some good info and a lot of debates about their usefulness. One forum member said, “I did a 338 whisper. Shot 300smk above a lil bit of lil gun. Not sure it would kill a squirrel at 50yds but it was cute and no ear muffs necessary” which made me laugh. I’ll be the first to admit in many ways it may be a novelty in some respects but I still remember that 300 grain SMK hitting steel at 200 yards, fun! I think it would also be a fun way to get young people interested in shooting. I help quite a few young people every year on their big game hunts and help them hone their shooting skills too, I think the big whisper would put a smile on their face. Our hobby needs all the young people we can get interested in putting down their damn phone and discovering there is life other than phones and a iPads.

I know there is many versions of the 338 whispers and similar cartridges. I think I’d want to build one based on the 7BR case. I have two 300 blackouts, both are ARs and lots of fun. One has accounted for three coyotes harassing chickens, I don’t want another 30 cal shorty though. I don’t want anything bigger than a 338 either, bullets get pricey, dies become more difficult etc. so the reason for the post is to simply ask those of you who have been down this road if you would do it again? Pros and cons? Dies used, brass used, bullets used. Are there bullets like the Lehigh defense that will expand at these slow speeds and are they accurat? It’s slow and heavy, how far did you take it to? Did you shoot it suppressed and if you did what suppressor did you use and did you like it? Any info or opinions are welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[Bat Rastard]

I think the current popular flavor of that is the 8.6BLK.

Interesting cartridge. Uses a 1 in 3 twist.

 

[Zero333]

416 x 39 mm (made from 7.62 x 39 mm.

300 gr Barnes TSX suppressed through an AR-15 with 16" bbl with 14" twist ( 2.260" COAL ). Around 1000 fps with about14 gr of H-4198.

J/K

Following data was derived from Quickload ( I enjoy playing with the program and lots of fun making up wildcats in it )...

338 Whisper (made from 221 fireball brass, necked up and trimmed to 1.372", and 2.250" COAL, shooting 300 smk subsonic will stabilize it with a 9" twist bbl.

Trying to find powder that should cycle a 16"bbl AR-15 suppressed without an adjustable gas block. Loaded at 2.250" COAL with..

4.5 gr. of Hodgdon Clay ( 36,000 psi / 1,020 fps / 66 % case fill )
4.5 gr. N310 ( 36,000 psi / 1,025 fps / 55 % case fill )
6.0 gr. N32C Tin Star ( 34,000 psi / 1,015 fps / 83 % case fill )
5.0 gr. N320 ( 33,000 psi / 1,065 fps / 60 % case fill )
6.4 gr. Norma R123 ( 43,000 psi / 1,000 fps / 100 % case fill )
6.5 gr. Ramshot Enforcer ( 44,000 psi / 980 fps / 99 % case fill )
7.0 gr. Win. 296 ( 33,000 psi / 940 fps / 102 % case fill )
4.5 gr. Accurate No.5 ( 47,500 psi / 900 fps / 68% case fill )
5.5 gr. Accurate No. 7 ( 46,000 psi / 940 fps / 80 % case fill )
6.0 gr. Accurate No.9 ( 43,000 psi / 945 fps / 89 % case fill )
6.7 gr. Accurate 4100 ( 41,500 psi / 945 fps , 102 % case fill )

That's about it unless you're using an adjustable gas block.

Cheers !

 

[z2013]

I shoot the .338 BR. I use necked up 7 BR cases. I shoot the 300 Sierras with 2400 powder subsonic suppressed and Hornady 200 sst with RL 7 for supersonic suppressed for hunting.
Lots of fun to shoot.

 

[nakneker]

I think the current popular flavor of that is the 8.6BLK.

Interesting cartridge. Uses a 1 in 3 twist.

Yeah, I’ve read quite a bit about it, some very positive reviews and some very negative reviews on the 1-3 twist. I’m wanting a bolt gun if I decide to pull the trigger so to speak, the AR 300 blackouts are fun but I want to simplify this rifle, no gas block or suppressor issues, just a simple bolt will fit the bill nicely.

 

[DDriller]

Look at the .338 spectre, 300 grain bullet subsonic. Based off a necked down 10mm magnum case. Super quiet and easy to form the brass. Can also buy properly head stamped brass if you desire. If you want to hot rod it brass can be formed from 6.8spc though it is a lot of work.

 

[Zero333]

Yeah, I’ve read quite a bit about it, some very positive reviews and some very negative reviews on the 1-3 twist. I’m wanting a bolt gun if I decide to pull the trigger so to speak, the AR 300 blackouts are fun but I want to simplify this rifle, no gas block or suppressor issues, just a simple bolt will fit the bill nicel

Use the Berger twist calculator...

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.

bergerbullets.com

At 1,000 fps a 9" twist is enough to stabilize the 300 Berger OTM which is 0.100" longer than the 300 SMK...


( Click on picture to enlarge )

 

[357Mag]

Years ago I shot a surpressed 338 whisper. It was a lot of fun and I’ve wanted to build my own for a few years now. It seems like the big caliber whispers peaked in popularity 5-8 years ago and have kind of died off a bit or at least I don’t see them mentioned as often now days. I searched here for threads concerning the 338 whisper and other large caliber shorties, found some good info and a lot of debates about their usefulness. One forum member said, “I did a 338 whisper. Shot 300smk above a lil bit of lil gun. Not sure it would kill a squirrel at 50yds but it was cute and no ear muffs necessary” which made me laugh. I’ll be the first to admit in many ways it may be a novelty in some respects but I still remember that 300 grain SMK hitting steel at 200 yards, fun! I think it would also be a fun way to get young people interested in shooting. I help quite a few young people every year on their big game hunts and help them hone their shooting skills too, I think the big whisper would put a smile on their face. Our hobby needs all the young people we can get interested in putting down their damn phone and discovering there is life other than phones and a iPads.

I know there is many versions of the 338 whispers and similar cartridges. I think I’d want to build one based on the 7BR case. I have two 300 blackouts, both are ARs and lots of fun. One has accounted for three coyotes harassing chickens, I don’t want another 30 cal shorty though. I don’t want anything bigger than a 338 either, bullets get pricey, dies become more difficult etc. so the reason for the post is to simply ask those of you who have been down this road if you would do it again? Pros and cons? Dies used, brass used, bullets used. Are there bullets like the Lehigh defense that will expand at these slow speeds and are they accurat? It’s slow and heavy, how far did you take it to? Did you shoot it suppressed and if you did what suppressor did you use and did you like it? Any info or opinions are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Nakneker -

Howdy !

Did read all of your post, and your comment about not wanting the calibre to be > .338,
Might you re-consider ?

I had a custom Red Scherer 22" SS barrel made in .358" cal, and 1-16 twist; 5 groove.
J.D. Jones chambered it in my " .358 AutoMag " ( .357AutoMag necked up .001" to full .358" calibre; to allow use of .358" cal rifle bullets.

i shot surplus Remington .358" cal 150PSPs until they ran out, and then 180gr bullets from Hornady and Sierra.

IMHO - Main line .358" cal rifle bullets run a little lighter on wt than do .338" cal ( often LR ) bullets. In light of that, .358" cal bullets can indeed be lower in cost than the 8.6mm stuff.

I formed my .358" cal "wildcat" brass from both 6mmBR and 7mmBR brass.
I shot SR primers along w/ WW296 powder. The .358 AutoMag case has a smidge less
powder capacity than does a BR case; and my max charge of WW296 ( accuracy load ) was 24gr.

The Scherer barrel was integrated with a Wichita WBR1375 SS action, 2oz converted
Ken Burns trigger; and placed in a Bishop walnut/walnut laminate stock.
A true benchrest-grade rifle.

The farthest I pressed a shot was a 350yd kill on a groundhog. The rifle / chambering were
impressively accurate. I once shot 3 3-shot groups @ 200yd that all went into 3 separate groups measuring 5/8" each; one group shot right after another.

While I say " necked up .001" to full .358" calibre, that's making things sound perhaps more complex than they really are. I used a stock Hornady " Custom Grade New Dimension " .357 AutoMag die set, and I subbed-in a .358" cal bullet seater stem. I also had Hornady send me a combo shoulder bump / bushing NS die; that accommodated Wilson NS bushings. Using the latter die was just like any similar neck sizing die, with it just being a matter of finding the bushing that shot best.

.358" cal is well known to be cast bullet friendly, and one could go the low recoil plinker route if and when desired. I originally approached Scherer about making the barrel, with intent to shoot it in the then new Cast Bullet Association shoots... but none were held nearby. I sat on the barrel for 20yr, before finally having it chambered in my .358" cal wildcat. No regrets !!

I went w/ SSK Industries for the chamber job, because they had AutoMag experience and the had the requisite chamber reamer. I think SSK used their .357AutoMag chamber reamer w/ a pilot on it that allowed use in the larger .358" cal barrel. And of course,
J.D. Jones and the " Whisper " series of wildcats go hand-in-hand. My .358" cal wildcat
was a kissin' cousin. I just didn't go the ultra-heavy bullet route'.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[nakneker]

Nakneker -

Howdy !

Did read all of your post, and your comment about not wanting the calibre to be > .338,
Might you re-consider ?

I had a custom Red Scherer 22" SS barrel made in .358" cal, and 1-16 twist; 5 groove.
J.D. Jones chambered it in my " .358 AutoMag " ( .357AutoMag necked up .001" to full .358" calibre; to allow use of .358" cal rifle bullets.

i shot surplus Remington .358" cal 150PSPs until they ran out, and then 180gr bullets from Hornady and Sierra.

IMHO - Main line .358" cal rifle bullets run a little lighter on wt than do .338" cal ( often LR ) bullets. In light of that, .358" cal bullets can indeed be lower in cost than the 8.6mm stuff.

I formed my .358" cal "wildcat" brass from both 6mmBR and 7mmBR brass.
I shot SR primers along w/ WW296 powder. The .358 AutoMag case has a smidge less
powder capacity than does a BR case; and my max charge of WW296 ( accuracy load ) was 24gr.

The Scherer barrel was integrated with a Wichita WBR1375 SS action, 2oz converted
Ken Burns trigger; and placed in a Bishop walnut/walnut laminate stock.
A true benchrest-grade rifle.

The farthest I pressed a shot was a 350yd kill on a groundhog. The rifle / chambering were
impressively accurate. I once shot 3 3-shot groups @ 200yd that all went into 3 separate groups measuring 5/8" each; one group shot right after another.

While I say " necked up .001" to full .358" calibre, that's making things sound perhaps more complex than they really are. I used a stock Hornady " Custom Grade New Dimension " .357 AutoMag die set, and I subbed-in a .358" cal bullet seater stem. I also had Hornady send me a combo shoulder bump / bushing NS die; that accommodated Wilson NS bushings. Using the latter die was just like any similar neck sizing die, with it just being a matter of finding the bushing that shot best.

.358" cal is well known to be cast bullet friendly, and one could go the low recoil plinker route if and when desired. I originally approached Scherer about making the barrel, with intent to shoot it in the then new Cast Bullet Association shoots... but none were held nearby. I sat on the barrel for 20yr, before finally having it chambered in my .358" cal wildcat. No regrets !!

I went w/ SSK Industries for the chamber job, because they had AutoMag experience and the had the requisite chamber reamer. I think SSK used their .357AutoMag chamber reamer w/ a pilot on it that allowed use in the larger .358" cal barrel. And of course,
J.D. Jones and the " Whisper " series of wildcats go hand-in-hand. My .358" cal wildcat
was a kissin' cousin. I just didn't go the ultra-heavy bullet route'.


With regards,
357Mag

I’ll probably just stick with the 338 whisper and 7BR case. I have all the dies and mandrels to handle it and it’s kind of where my mindset has been, you definitely have a neat project though, I appreciate the input.

 

[Korn0341]

Have you made any movement on building one? I've got a reamer for one ordered to build one

 

[k260]

Have you made any movement on building one? I've got a reamer for one ordered to build one

I have a 338 Whisper reamer (BR case) if you want to borrow it.

 

[Korn0341]

Thank you for the offer! My reamer came in already and I have custom dies ordered from redding they said they are in stock so should be here in a week or 2. I'll pm you though

 

[muleystalker]

Sounds fun, I think a 30BR, on short barreled bolt gun, throated for heavy bullets would be fun. Even thought of building one throated for some of the Higher BC mono bullets. I think one shooting the Badlands 136gr Bulldozer-2 or their or their 150gr version shooting supersonic would be a cool little hunting rifle.

.308 136gr BD-2 - Badlands precision, LLC

Length: 1.300″ BC (G1): 0.428 BC (G7): 0.218 Twist: 1:11.5 Price: 50/BOX

badlandsprecision.com

 

[WV Hitman]

I've had the pleasure of having JD Jones as my best friend for almost 50 years. I have access to a lot of crop damage deer permits in the summer. JD brought all his new guns to me to test on deer. The .300 Whisper works great on deer, not with the Sierra 240 gr. HPBT Match that he used to develop it with, but a 220 gr. Sierra RN & 186 gr. Lehigh Controlled Chaos do much better (I 've tried a lot others). In the .338 Whisper the Match HPBTs just wouldn't perform well. Deer ran from lung, double shoulder hits. I didn't bother trying other bullets. A friend had one. We had a heck of a time recovering deer with good hits.
The .375 Whisper was even worse. Good hits saw deer running very far. Poor bullet choices.
The .500 Whisper, which he made for Delta Force, was fantastic. Using the Horn. 650 gr. AMax, deer dropped immediately (I killed 20 with it).
JD talked me out of buying a .500, .375, .338 due to cost & performance. I've had my .300 Whisper for over 40 years. Killed over 120 deer, turkeys, feral pigs, coyotes , hundred of groundhogs with it. The 220 Sierra & 186 Lehigh drops all animals about 95% of the time. This round & the 2 bullets are the best way to go for subsonic performance. I've never shot my Whisper supersonic. Never saw a need.

 

[Yote Hunter]

I found the 220 gr SMK (300 Blackout subsonic) would tumble upon impact and kill coyotes better than a 240 gr SMK which would pencil hole through. I had shot mine out to 400 yards with surprising good accuracy. 200 yard kill shots on a coyote were very doable knowing your exact range (32” drop w/100 yard zero). I then had a 375 Reaper built (shortened 308 case) shooting 337 gr Lehigh brass expanding bullets. Hit very hard but seemed to have mixed results. Then I had a 458 SOCOM bolt gun built and man what a powerhouse! Factory brass, dies and utilizes a .470 bolts face (AR 10 or bolt gun). Easy button! Slams whitetail deer HARD! 570 gr Lehigh bullet at 1050 fps is unbelievable. Would make good grizzley bear medicine, considering a 44 magnum pistol only pushes (close to half the weight bullet) 300 gr slug 1050-1100 fps max. Expensive to shoot with the Lehigh bullets but no tracking required! That’s worth a dollar more per shot.

 

[WV Hitman]

Interesting, yote. I shot 4 deer with the 220 SMKs from 150-200 yds. with my Whisper. NONE acted like they were hit! Walked around a corn field where I couldn't see them. I went 30 min. later to see if I'd missed. Each one (not all shot at the same time) was dead!! They had very tiny entrance & exit holes. Internal damage was about 1/2" in both lung on all the deer. Talked to JD about it. He said by the size of the holes & damage they didn't tumble. Every deer I shot with the 240-250 SMKs had jagged exit holes 1 1/4-1 1/2" with 2" of internal damage.
On the Lehighs, JD had a customer wanting 12 .45-70 lever action rifles to be subsonic. JD made the. I shot 4 deer with them and a 530 gr. Lehigh Controlled Fracturing bullet that they made for him. Each deer had .45 cal. entrance & exit holes. None dropped. All ran 50-75 yds. Just too much bullet for the medium size WV deer. Client loved the guns.
I tested a lot of bullets for Lehigh. Their Chaos in .375, 250 gr. are great (220# bear at 230 dropped from my .375/.284 XP-100 handgun). The little 110 gr. .30 cal. Chaos is interesting, too. I experimented and found a different powder that would make it shoot to the same POA up to 400 yds. as 150 gr. bullets in my .308 HS Precision handgun. I've killed 2 deer at 400 yds. with it. Both dropped.
Lehigh was bought by Wilson Combat. My relation with them has ended. It was fun when it lasted. Shoot some cool bullets. Was instrumental on developing the .30 cal. bullets for the Whisper. Took 4 or 5 kinds before one worked well. I took pics of damage on each type of bullet. The 186 Controlled Chaos is a little expensive but works great. A "certain government agency" bought 200,000 of them

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I think the current popular flavor of that is the 8.6BLK.

Interesting cartridge. Uses a 1 in 3 twist.

Have you seen videos on the terminal damage and performance from the 8.6 Blackout bullet spinning so fast in the tight twist? It’s pretty insane what it does to ballistics gel and dummies when spinning at over 500K rpm.

 

[JayHHI6818]

Many years ago I stopped by JD Jones shop and he showed me a 338 Whisper rifle. I bought a used 14 inch SSK 338 Whipser and occasionally shoot a silhouette match with it. Nosler 300 gr HPCC bullet, 10.2 grs HP 38, velocity is 1000 fps. Funny to hear the bullets hitting pigs, turkeys, and rams.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Yeah, I’ve read quite a bit about it, some very positive reviews and some very negative reviews on the 1-3 twist. I’m wanting a bolt gun if I decide to pull the trigger so to speak, the AR 300 blackouts are fun but I want to simplify this rifle, no gas block or suppressor issues, just a simple bolt will fit the bill nicely.

They make the 8.6 BLK in a bolt rifle. A bolt action is used in the YouTube video I posted in my last comment.

 

[LVLAaron]

I built an 8.6blk bolt gun. I only went that route because Manson had a reamer in stock, and because brass is available. The net-net between 8.6 and 338 whisper is zero if you're shooting subsonic.