338 norma magnum vs 338 lapua

[CJ6]

Ask some of the BETTER builders what they think of using a Remington action with a .580 case head Dia. Quite a few WON'T build on it.

 

[1smalljohnson]

Note: This below is not a "bash" against any company. Rather, a comparative statement between chambers. The use of "Norma" and "Lapua" must be used, as it describes CIP and SAAMI chambers.


I would tend to disagree with the brass life statement. .338 Norma brass should survive as long as, if not longer than .338 Lapua brass, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. But, things are not equal from the metalurgy standpont. Both companies make excellent brass, as good as or better than those presently manufactured in the US. However, they may anneal slightly differently, use different grain structures, or have different proprietary steps in manufacture. Those variables MAY contribute to longer or shorter brass life. But gas flow dynamics, heat localization, pressures generated and brass obduration against the chamber wall have more to do with inherent brass life, when considering the statement of which brass lasts longer, given a chamber called out.

Second, energy on target given both cartridges are very much on par. Given a constant magazine length of 3.7 ish inches, both loaded cartridges hold the same volume.

Third, there are certain non-voodo characteristics of the .338 Norma which enable it to surpass accuracy and barrel life characteristics, over the .338 Lapua. Before anybody cries fowl on that statement, I encourage folks who have indeed shot all those, and know those, to chime in. I can tell you I've got both barrel life and accuracy real-life experience with all above, and my experience has been the same as others experiences with both cartridges.

Fourth, and this is a big one..... Find someone, an actual shooter, who is perfectly happy with their .338 Lapua. Ask them or ask yourself if you've ever and always shot very consistent tiny groups... or if ~ every couple shots or so, you just can't seem to get rid of that flyer.... You won't hear that statement from those shooting the .338 Norma.

I have nothing to gain by either cartridge being superior. But I've studied both, I know both, I have a good bit of experience with both, and I just want to pass along my findings.

 

[BigDMT]

Note: This below is not a "bash" against any company. Rather, a comparative statement between chambers. The use of "Norma" and "Lapua" must be used, as it describes CIP and SAAMI chambers.


I would tend to disagree with the brass life statement. .338 Norma brass should survive as long as, if not longer than .338 Lapua brass, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. But, things are not equal from the metalurgy standpont. Both companies make excellent brass, as good as or better than those presently manufactured in the US. However, they may anneal slightly differently, use different grain structures, or have different proprietary steps in manufacture. Those variables MAY contribute to longer or shorter brass life. But gas flow dynamics, heat localization, pressures generated and brass obduration against the chamber wall have more to do with inherent brass life, when considering the statement of which brass lasts longer, given a chamber called out.

Second, energy on target given both cartridges are very much on par. Given a constant magazine length of 3.7 ish inches, both loaded cartridges hold the same volume.

Third, there are certain non-voodo characteristics of the .338 Norma which enable it to surpass accuracy and barrel life characteristics, over the .338 Lapua. Before anybody cries fowl on that statement, I encourage folks who have indeed shot all those, and know those, to chime in. I can tell you I've got both barrel life and accuracy real-life experience with all above, and my experience has been the same as others experiences with both cartridges.

Fourth, and this is a big one..... Find someone, an actual shooter, who is perfectly happy with their .338 Lapua. Ask them or ask yourself if you've ever and always shot very consistent tiny groups... or if ~ every couple shots or so, you just can't seem to get rid of that flyer.... You won't hear that statement from those shooting the .338 Norma.

I have nothing to gain by either cartridge being superior. But I've studied both, I know both, I have a good bit of experience with both, and I just want to pass along my findings.

Excellent post

I did a TON of research on the 338 Norma before I started building my last rifle. Found just about every piece of info out there and was very impressed to say the least. Was going to build one, but I didn't feel safe opening my 700 magnum action bolt face that much. Plus brass is spendy, and recoil would probably require a muzzle brake which I didn't want because I wanted to use the rifle for hunting.

So I finally decided on building the 338-375 Ruger. Not as powerful as the Norma, but folks claim its easy to tune for accuracy, can shoot it without a brake, and it gives excellent speeds as well. But hopefully one day when I come across the right action for the right price, ill fulfill my desire to build a 338 Norma.

 

[pmarauder]

Fourth, and this is a big one..... Find someone, an actual shooter, who is perfectly happy with their .338 Lapua. Ask them or ask yourself if you've ever and always shot very consistent tiny groups... or if ~ every couple shots or so, you just can't seem to get rid of that flyer.... You won't hear that statement from those shooting the .338 Norma.

Alright, I guess I will be the first to chime in on accuracy potential of the 338 L. I have done a lot of bullet testing both at short range (200) and longer range (1000). I just am not experiencing this flier phenomenon you are describing.... so here are some tiny groups with the 338 Lapua. This is not a bench gun either. Its tough to shoot. They were all shot at 200 yards. One of the groups measured .340" outside to outside. It also shoots ridiculous groups at 1k. It had 20 shots while tuning seating depth, and all 20 were inside of 8".

 

[Drop Port]

Nice rifle and shooting. I have seen the fliers from time to time with the Lapua, and the only thing that is consistent is it happens with 300 grain bullets with slower powder. I cant explain it or find any other factors. Just my observations

 

[bozo699]

It must be the rifle or something that these fliers are coming from, bad builds or something, they have the longest recorded kills and I know Dereks .338 at 1000 yards really hammers as I have seen the targets from it and watched him shoot them, no fliers from his rifle
Wayne.

 

[Desert Fox]

Fourth, and this is a big one..... Find someone, an actual shooter, who is perfectly happy with their .338 Lapua. Ask them or ask yourself if you've ever and always shot very consistent tiny groups... or if ~ every couple shots or so, you just can't seem to get rid of that flyer.... You won't hear that statement from those shooting the .338 Norma.

I'm the actual shooter you're talking about. But sorry my friend, I'm perfectly happy with my 338 Lapua. Flyer! non existent with my rifle. If ever there was one, I attributed it to me not the rifle.

20 shot group at 1000 yards.

Typical 5 shot group at 100 meters.

 

[bozo699]

I think the proof is in the pudding, I am not saying anything bad about the Norma Mag as I am sure it is very good, I for one like Norma brass very well, however to say the .338L has flyer issues, Desert fox has proven this a myth, as he was able to do this awesome 20 shot group, just think what he could have done with a solid bench and a high dollar rest and bag setup, congrats Desert Fox, job well done.
Wayne.

 

[BigDMT]

Nice groups fellas I never read anything about fliers with the 338 lapua, i was just agreeing with what I had read about the Norma being more forgiving with load development. But that's just what I've read from folks with experience using both. I have no real life experience with either, but it sure is obvious from the groups above that the lapua is a serious long range round

 

[Drop Port]

Fourth, and this is a big one..... Find someone, an actual shooter, who is perfectly happy with their .338 Lapua. Ask them or ask yourself if you've ever and always shot very consistent tiny groups... or if ~ every couple shots or so, you just can't seem to get rid of that flyer.... You won't hear that statement from those shooting the .338 Norma.

I'm the actual shooter you're talking about. But sorry my friend, I'm perfectly happy with my 338 Lapua. Flyer! non existent with my rifle. If ever there was one, I attributed it to me not the rifle.

20 shot group at 1000 yards.

Typical 5 shot group at 100 meters.

nice shooting, what load do you shoot

 

[Desert Fox]

My recipe is 95 grains of Retumbo, 300 grains SMK and Federal 215 Match. Velocity is around 2830-2850 fps from a 30" Broughton 5C 9.35" twist. I can easily reach over 2900 fps with 96.5 grains of Retumbo but I reduced the load to around 2850 for competition. Firing 20 to 25 rounds in a competition leaves welt on my shoulder.

By the way, my rifle is chambered for the 338 Lapua Ackley Improved, so load will be too hot for your rifle.

just think what he could have done with a solid bench and a high dollar rest and bag setup, congrats Desert Fox, job well done.

Wayne,

I shoot prone with Harris Bipod. I shoot that group at our local open F-Class.

Here's another 25 shot group at 1K shot with wind gusting between 8-12 miles/hour. Scored 243-13X. To spiced the competition, we scored for the smallest first 5 shot group.

 

[bozo699]

Very impressive my friend Congrats
Wayne.

 

[Drop Port]

What is your OAL with your chamber? I was looking into an improved and from anything I've been able to research and from people shooting them Flyers are non existent. Could be due to case sesign Min taper / Bullet not stuffed in the case? any way congrats on a beautiful rifle and some fine shooting.
Mine is similar only in a norma with a 26" Broughton

 

[Desert Fox]

I started at 2.930" measured at the ogive of a 300 grain SMK with about .005" jump. I have now over 1200 rounds on the barrel. The throat is now advanced to 2.960", loosing about .030" due to erosion. The rifle still shooting half MOA.

 

[Desert Fox]

Forgot to add, I use it as and is strictly single shot.

Tom

Tom mine is 40 degrees. It is also a single shot (Lawton 7500)

 

[ebb]

My friend and I both have 338 laps on sako actions and havent seen the flyers mentioned here. Ive never heard this before either.