.338 300 grain A-Tip in F-Open

[davidjoe]

3 completed .338’s with fresh barrels in testing. One 5-R and two 6 groove barrels, Kriegers, on the same Surgeon actions and MCS Fclass stocks. But now the A-Tips are gone leaving basically just enough for upcoming matches. any honey holes out there?

 

[spaniel]

I applaud your research and pushing the limits.

I shoot 284 in F-Open. I have a 338 Edge which is a lighter 14lb hunting rig, but I took 3rd in a 2000yd match with it that required ~70 rounds over the course of a couple hours. The gun wears a brake, I was wearing a T-shirt, and it was a conscious effort to not flinch towards the end as each shot sent the rifle into a bruised shoulder. Adding 8lbs to the rifle and removing the brake is probably a wash so no thanks. I would need to see a more than marginal increase in overall performance. Right now I'm better investing in improving my wind calls to get the nudge into High Master.

 

[davidjoe]

That’s all very true Spaniel, especially that any improvement will be relatively small. The 7 saums will spoil you on the line but take it all back out of the barrel and brass.

If I push A-Tips to 2,800, JBM says that drift matches the Berger 184 at 3,250. No one shoots those that fast. However, 195’s would only need go 3,000 to drift the same, and I believe in my saums I already reached that level or was pretty close. But then again I have lost jackets on a few 195’s late in shot strings (hot barrels) this year and that’s an uneasy feeling to have on the line.

On the flinch, amen. If not for the way Fclass setups basically do all the rifle’s holding for you, it wouldn’t be at all conducive to accurate shooting. Just too much thumping. But with 60 pounds of cushioned support under the rifle we can literally slap the trigger in Fclass without an accuracy loss and I think many people do.

I still don’t know how they handle 1,000. I just can’t spare a lot of them to find out unless more get distributed.

 

[rardoin]

Your missing a great opportunity to test them at a tricky range. I thought you would be coming up to Shreveport for the Louisiana LR state championship.

 

[Wildcats]

Yes, I agree H-1000 is looking more suitable for string fire, for two reasons. Since those posts, I’ve compared H-1000 for accuracy heads up with RE-25. I’m getting better accuracy with the H-1000 using both A-Tips and 300 scenars. The scenars actually shoot as well at 600 as dedicated 7mm Fclass loads are shooting, both of mine and my buddy’s. I think the RE powders get more accurate as you approach a strong “max” charge than they are at low pressure, and that greatly increases heat. H-1000 on the other hand gives me equal size groups across a wider velocity range.

You might want to give VHT 170 and VHT-570 a try if you can get your hands on some.
I've had excellent results with both powders in my 338 LMs .
And as you mentioned,the H-1000 is hard to beat.

 

[davidjoe]

I wish I had more .338 A-Tips. No dealer has any. Presently I could squeak by TX state and Nationals based on what they do at 600 with fingers crossed. I don’t think I could shoot more than one practice string at 1,000 without running out.

 

[ronemus]

Back to .338, so they couldn’t shoot inside 7mm loads without roasting. They were a ring or more wider, and so they went into hibernation awaiting a bullet advancement.

I've started working with a 257 gr monolithic solid from Lehigh Defense that has a claimed G1 BC of 0.890. Load data with RL-33 claims 3000+ fps for 250 gr bullets. I've moly-coated mine and they look good at 100 yards (the only range I currently have access to) in early development. I expect to be able to run close to 3100 fps with moly. My ballistics program tells me this combination will beat the ELD-M, A-Tip and the Warner Flatline so I hope it behaves well.

I need to lengthen the throat of my Ruger Magnum Precision Rifle 0 0.375" to use the .338 LM case capacity to best effect. I have a uni-throater, but the t-handle is to short to reach the bore in the RPR; the action is very long. I'm waiting for a barrel nut wrench so I can remove the barrel to lengthen the throat; it's on backorder with no anticipated ship date.

The RPR probably weighs close to 20 lb with scope and accessories and has a good muzzle brake, but even so the recoil was more than that of my 14 lb .284 with the 162 gr A-Max running at ~2930 fps. I had no problem shooting 100 rounds in a range session, but it was not well-behaved on the rest, generally moving the rear bag around. If I were to use it in competition, it would probably be in ELR so the number of shots in a match would be reasonable. There was certainly plenty of heat - mirage from the barrel/brake was fierce even at a slow pace with breaks between chrono strings; I now have a mirage tube, so that may be less of a problem.

 

[davidjoe]

Ronemus, that’s a good point on the solids. They would indeed have a higher effective BC. I don’t know of anyone using them in Fclass. I have shot the amazingly good Lehigh Defense .375’s. They didn’t heat up my barrel much despite a big step up from .338 LM capacity. I’m probably in the group that worries whether the composition or inflexibility of solids would ruin barrels more quickly.

 

[ronemus]

The .338 LM makes me gulp to contemplate loading for it - ~60 rounds per lb of powder and >$1 per bullet, so I'm taking baby steps into ELR. The Ruger is an affordable rifle and .338 LM is mainstream enough that it isn't terribly expensive, and deals can be found. If the bug bites hard I could possibly graduate to .375/.416-class, but that was too big a step to start.

Moly reduces in-bore friction and some claim that it reduces flame temperature, so barrel life could be reasonable, especially since the .338 LM isn't much overbore; it seems odd to call it a magnum, but it is a big step up from the .338 Winchester Magnum. Isn't marketing wonderful?

 

[davidjoe]

Yes I agree the LM isn’t overbore relatively speaking which, which with its strong case head sure enamors me. I think it’s closer to a scaled up .30-06 than a .284, and I’m seeing good brass and barrel life. I’m hoping to see the same benefit with it that guys found in the 300 WSM over 7’s. Not necessarily much smaller wind calls, but hopefully lower vertical dispersion between head and tail winds, and a smoothing out of minor, inevitable powder and brass variations on the target, through the principle of proportionality and scale. (Quite a few grains difference in a howitzer shell is obviously immaterial).

Coatings help with friction, there is no doubt in my mind having used them. I favor HBN but honestly I don’t use it much. Barrel heat does stay lower. It’s just coping with the clean up in handing and inside the barrel that holds back coatings. That and barrels can’t go back and forth between naked and coated bullets.

 

[davidjoe]

I’m reloading the last couple boxes of these I have.

I held up the last one loaded from the press to my wife saying with some satisfaction that I don’t think anyone else is shooting these bullets in F-Class anywhere.

With no particular insight into F-Class cartridges, and looking at it exactly as if it were a .308 until I held up the Rsaum, she asked me right back why they don’t, and if that’s so, shouldn’t that tell me that it’s not such good idea. Well.

At a bare minimum, at least the rule makers won’t be tempted to scale back caliber choices from universal non-use.

 

[rardoin]

Are you going to shoot this combo at the TSRA?

 

[davidjoe]

Are you going to shoot this combo at the TSRA?

Yes, that’s my plan unless between now and then I get a chance to shoot LR with disappointing results. That plan to shoot this combo is based on 600 results. Either way though I will go to TSRA with full alternative backup options in the car. Probably 190 Berger Hybrids in my Saum.

 

[Geno C]

I've started working with a 257 gr monolithic solid from Lehigh Defense that has a claimed G1 BC of 0.890. Load data with RL-33 claims 3000+ fps for 250 gr bullets. I've moly-coated mine and they look good at 100 yards (the only range I currently have access to) in early development. I expect to be able to run close to 3100 fps with moly. My ballistics program tells me this combination will beat the ELD-M, A-Tip and the Warner Flatline so I hope it behaves well.

I need to lengthen the throat of my Ruger Magnum Precision Rifle 0 0.375" to use the .338 LM case capacity to best effect. I have a uni-throater, but the t-handle is to short to reach the bore in the RPR; the action is very long. I'm waiting for a barrel nut wrench so I can remove the barrel to lengthen the throat; it's on backorder with no anticipated ship date.

The RPR probably weighs close to 20 lb with scope and accessories and has a good muzzle brake, but even so the recoil was more than that of my 14 lb .284 with the 162 gr A-Max running at ~2930 fps. I had no problem shooting 100 rounds in a range session, but it was not well-behaved on the rest, generally moving the rear bag around. If I were to use it in competition, it would probably be in ELR so the number of shots in a match would be reasonable. There was certainly plenty of heat - mirage from the barrel/brake was fierce even at a slow pace with breaks between chrono strings; I now have a mirage tube, so that may be less of a problem.

I have yet to see a Lehigh G1 be anywhere close to right

 

[dskogman]

Yes, that’s my plan unless between now and then I get a chance to shoot LR with disappointing results. That plan to shoot this combo is based on 600 results. Either way though I will go to TSRA with full alternative backup options in the car. Probably 190 Berger Hybrids in my Saum.

I hope I’m on the other end of the line !

 

[davidjoe]

If I’m not getting beaten up in high wind then I’m not getting beaten up on the line. Sevens shoot tens for wins until the heavens blow bends in limbs.

 

[davidjoe]

Going to use it. The way we score F-Class with shots tangent to the rings, the scales do balance in favor of starting with the .338 with A-Tips until and unless there’s a problem. Its first shot by me at 1,000 yards will be the state match. There’s just no more bullets to buy anywhere that would permit club match testing.

600 yards in 12+ mph wind, below, with a constant hold is good enough to proceed. It’s the projected better wind bucking and vertical between 600 and 1,000, relative to other options, that would make that group especially attractive.





My McMillan Z-Rail Kestros with an adjustable butt plate makes this rifle as comfortable to shoot as is possible. That butt plate is heavy, and it took this particular combination to feel and see what an important asset it can be on a rifle. The magnetically secured cheek piece is removable as this rifle’s recoil would stretch your skin.



The JBM chart shows that at 2,850 FPS, which correlates to my measured velocity on 600 yard distant E-Targets, this bullet shoots .1 moa inside a 195 Hybrid at 3,100 FPS, (@ 1,000) a velocity actually beyond what I have confirmed to blow up 195’s when the barrel is hot.

 

[No i deer]

Looking forward to hearing how you got on Dave..!!

 

[No i deer]

My main shooting is at a place called Bisley and a 338 lapua magnum exceeds the ranges muzzle energy limit.
You used to be able too..
Probaly more than 10 years ago before I started going there..

 

[davidjoe]

I can only hope to do as well in October’s state (and depending how it works possibly national) matches as you have been shooting in the tournaments at Bisley. There are various range limits here and in Canada. Connaught restricts cartridges above a certain BC calculation. Texas amended the state match program to mirror and permit the NRA’s caliber limits for me, a few years back. Existing bullets then could not be shot fast enough with reasonable barrel temps to even equal, let alone better, the hold offs of 7’s, after a number of tries. My local club previously restricted 50 BMG’s, but thankfully changed to permit them upon meeting specific qualifications.

Last weekend I shot a windy match in West Texas at 1k that would have been interesting for the .338 especially in the last match, but there again, 30 cal was the firm max. I used a .284 and while I was very lucky and happy to have had the high aggregate score, the 25 mph winds required stoppages and holds past the edge of the black, and I still dropped 7 points in each of the second and third matches. If the big cartridge would save 3, or even 2 points in each string like those, to me it would be well worth it. Incremental improvements are all that is possible these days and there will be plenty of gravel sifted between the nuggets.



Edit: 500 Atips shipped to me today on a back order. That’s enough to fully test them out, now.