30BR from Al Nyhus

[Toby Bradshaw]

Hi Alex. I turned the three cases to give a loaded round diameter of 0.3292 over the pressure ring of the Berger 115 (0.3082), so 0.0105 neck thickness, or thereabouts. That's tight enough to snap back after firing in a 0.330 neck chamber, so I didn't need a sizing die to reload the cases enough times (5-6) for them to be snug in the chamber. I sent the snug cases to the Harrells to get a FL die that matches the chamber.

This weekend I'll turn 100 blue box case necks to give a loaded round diameter of 0.328 or a little less (~0.010 neck thickness). The Bergers and Cheeks are pretty close in pressure ring diameter -- within 0.0002. If I ever get some BIB 118gr, I think they're a little fatter and may need to have the necks turned a bit thinner.

I've heard that the 30BR with H4198 likes a lot of neck tension, so I have a 0.323 and a 0.324 bushing to try.

 

[L-46]

Wow,
If you want to improve on that,
I take my hat off!!
Good shooting
L-46

 

[GSPV]

I suggest turning for a loaded round diameter of 327. 1 thou per side is too snug for a 30. It'll show up as inconsistency at 200 yards.

Further, I suggest that you don't let your neck length get long and use 2-3 thou shoulder bump rather than 1-1.5 as most use in a PPC.

In general, remain vigilant about clearance in the front end.

 

[AlNyhus]

Toby, when you get around to putting the 30BRX barrel on that came with the gun, here's what you can look forward to. The .113 group is a little 'weather report' as I obviously missed the condition by 1-2 mph, adding probably .040-.050 to the group size. Both are 5 shot groups. The reamer in the 30BRX barrel is a dedicated BRX reamer that Stan Ware and I spec'd from Dave Kiff at PTG. Many try to make a cheapy BRX by running the standard 30BR reamer in .100 long.......the problem with doing this is obvious. Stan's reamers are done with no throat on them and the throats are done in a seperate operation.



Regarding case necks.......R.G. can tell you how I am about perfect inner case necks. A 6BR simply necked up to .30 will have the inside neck shaped as a 'funnel'....the smallest diameter is at the new neck/shoulder junction. I won't bore 'ya with all the gorey details (a phrase stolen from R.G. ;D) but my process involves straightening the expanded case neck relative to the long axis of the case body, then inside cutting the necks so they are perfectly round and straight, and finally cutting the neck o.d. before annealing and firing the first time. Done this way, cases are ready to go with no f-forming needed.

Cases done this way minimize donut formation and generally show no more than .001 total thickening at the bottom of the case neck internally after 30-40 firings.

I was never able to A-B-A quantify the results from cases done this way and simple neck-and-turn cases, but my testing did show definite differences when 'perfect' case necks were randomly mixed with 'neck-and-turn' cases shooting 10 shot groups. Absolute group sizes were no bigger with either necks but (and this is a big but).....tuning was noticeably easier with the 'perfect' necks. I attribute this to less 'spike' as the gases aren't funnelling through tapered (and inconsistently tapered, at that) case necks. For lack of a better explanation, the tuneup window seemed to get wider with the 'perfect' necks.

For what it's worth..................... -Al

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Now, Al, you can't leave us hanging. ??? I think that a description of the process you use for 30BR neck prep should make its way to the 30BR sticky thread after you post it here.

P.S. Looking forward to giving that 30BRX barrel a workout at 300yd!

 

[AlNyhus]

Toby, there's not many that would really want to go through the steps needed to make truly round inner case necks....especially when the 'neck and turn' system shows such good results (as seen by your groups).

If you have access to a lathe, you can make very consistently round inner case necks by pushing the neck over a rotating mandrel. Stan does his this way and they come out very nice. When you cut the neck o.d.'s after they've been expanded this way, you'll find that you'll remove a bunch more material on the lower neck than when you do them the manual 'expand and turn' way.The newer 'blue box' stuff is a bit more forgiving here than the original 'gold cardboard' cases, IMO.

Just goes to show how forgiving the little 30BR is. -Al

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Just goes to show how forgiving the little 30BR is. -Al

I definitely have a new favorite cartridge.

I turned 100 case necks over the weekend (0.3272 on the pressure ring). Some of the necks were so crooked from the expanding process that the bullet scraped on the chamber's neck-freebore junction when I closed the bolt, yet still shot a 0.374 5-shot group at 200 yards while fireforming. Now THAT'S forgiving.

I'm looking forward to some shooting this weekend with my nice straight fireformed brass, to see if I can find a load that WON'T shoot. It may be impossible.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Twelve 3-shot groups from this morning's range session with Al's former 30BR, using 1x fireformed brass resized with my just-arrived Harrell's FL die (0.324 bushing on a 0.3272 diameter round over the pressure ring). Three charges of H4198 (33.5gr, 34.1gr, 34.7gr), 4 seating depths with the 115gr Berger FB (jam, jam-0.005, jam-0.010, jam-0.015). [Touch = jam-0.017.] Range = 100 yards, 45*F, 5-10mph wind 4-10 o'clock (didn't hold for it, though), light rain (which is why the bullet holes are a little ragged in the paper).

Al, the next time you decide to sell a rifle, be sure to call me first.

 

[AlNyhus]

Nothin' like a rifle that tells 'ya what it wants (re: seating depth). -Al

 

[expiper]

Al,,,these guns talk to us,,,we just gota be smart enuff to listen,,,,Roger

 

[AlNyhus]

Al,,,these guns talk to us,,,we just gota be smart enuff to listen,,,,Roger

Ain't that the truth, Roger?

Looks like Toby has it figured out. -Al

 

[Shynloco]

Twelve 3-shot groups from this morning's range session with Al's former 30BR, using 1x fireformed brass resized with my just-arrived Harrell's FL die (0.324 bushing on a 0.3272 diameter round over the pressure ring). Three charges of H4198 (33.5gr, 34.1gr, 34.7gr), 4 seating depths with the 115gr Berger FB (jam, jam-0.005, jam-0.010, jam-0.015). [Touch = jam-0.017.] Range = 100 yards, 45*F, 5-10mph wind 4-10 o'clock (didn't hold for it, though), light rain (which is why the bullet holes are a little ragged in the paper).

Al, the next time you decide to sell a rifle, be sure to call me first.

Toby,
Nice shootin Bud! I've been away for a few working on that 6.5BR conversion and getting that baby set up to shoot. Gotta tell ya, your targets on row 1/third target showing 33.5 gr/3rd row 3rd & 4th target showing 34.7 grs are indicative of what sometimes drives me nuts simply because those aforementioned targets have (what I consider) EXCELLENT and the tightest shot groups and yet there's a powder spread difference which is something I encounter as well, but not with such a wide spread. Now if I only had the "smarts" that Al and RG have, I MIGHT be able to cure that irritation. But that target overall is really something to be proud of and just flat exemplifies what a nice rifle Al sold you. And for what it's worth (ain't much) mine seems to shoot best at 34.1 gr of H4198 out of a 1:18 Kreiger using those same 115 Bergers just touching the rifling.

Alex

 

[savageshooter86]

Looks like it will shoot.

I'm not a BR shooter but what would you do next in your load development? Pretty large powder charge jumps

 

[RGRobinett]

Looks like it will shoot.

I'm not a BR shooter but what would you do next in your load development? Pretty large powder charge jumps

At this case capacity & expansion ratio, not so much: H-4198 is on the verge of being, "too slow" - 34.7 Gr. would be a nearly FULL case.

Even with bullets of roughly 1/2 the mass, this powder and a .224 caliber barrel, these charge weights, and increments would/could prove excessive: "ya gotta know the territory"; burn rate charts do not factor expansion ratio - they are "closed bomb" (finite space) comparisons.

About the only, "do next" would be to mess with "jam/jump" and neck-bushing sizes, to tweak timing via pressure curve - or, try other powders . . . ;D When available, the new Western/Accurate Powder offering - T-30 - could move us along! 8) RG

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I'll shoot at 200 and 300 yards to be sure that there is no unexpected vertical. I won't be testing a bunch of charges separated by 0.1gr, or seating depths varied by 0.001 before competing -- in my experience that simply is not necessary at 100-300 yards. Get in the middle of a wide loading window and stay there unless results on the target dictate otherwise.

Shooting a 6PPC I felt like I had to stay on top of the tune to shoot well. It wasn't a huge chore, but if I shot morning loads in the afternoon there could be some thrown shots from too much pressure. I'm told that the 30BR is more forgiving -- I would love to come to the range preloaded.

You can see from the row of 34.7gr charges that it shoots small to very small across all seating depths, and at seating depth (Wilson stem length) 1.747 it shoots small over a 1.2gr range of charge, even though there is a little difference in vertical POI across that range.

Given the broad tune, it would be a better use of my time (and barrel life, and component cost) to watch flags and do a little minor load tweaking (charge, depth, neck tension) on the sighter during matches. I'm not going to lose a 200-300yd score match (the format I shoot most often) because my load is off by 0.1gr or seating depth is off by 0.001 -- this rifle looks like it will hide a lot of minor mistakes. That's good, because I make plenty of mistakes. :

Of course I am also looking forward to getting some handmade bullets, although I am pleasantly surprised at how well the Bergers shoot.

 

[Shynloco]

.... this rifle looks like it will hide a lot of minor mistakes. That's good, because I make plenty of mistakes. :

.... I am pleasantly surprised at how well the Bergers shoot.

Toby,
I certainly appreciate the honesty for even if I were lucky enough to spend time with RG or AL in improving my loads, I absolutely believe I am the weakest link in the chain of accuracy and the capable of my rifle. Good luck on the shoot.

Alex

 

[Terry Altom]

Now, Al, you can't leave us hanging. ??? I think that a description of the process you use for 30BR neck prep should make its way to the 30BR sticky thread after you post it here.

P.S. Looking forward to giving that 30BRX barrel a workout at 300yd!

Toby,

I know this is a few years old, but did you ever give that 30BRX a try? If so, how did it compare to the 30BR in regards to ease of tuning?

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Toby,

I know this is a few years old, but did you ever give that 30BRX a try? If so, how did it compare to the 30BR in regards to ease of tuning?

Nope -- those 30BRX cases are sitting around unused.

 

[Eddie Harren]

"Nope -- those 30BRX cases are sitting around unused."

Terry, listen to these guys!

 

[Terry Altom]

Does have that "words of wisdom" sound.