308 Win Rechamber to 30-06AI

[S11033]

Hey guys,

I threw a rifle together using spare parts and don’t think I’ll ever love it. It’s an old LA Savage 110 action feeding from a blind mag. It wears a decent 308 Win barrel that’s allegedly from McGowen but has no markings on it. I haven’t worked a load up yet, but it’s shown some promise.

I got a great deal on a CZ600 Range in .308 that I like much more ergonomically. I’m torn between leaving my frankengun as-is to use it when I bring friends to the range and don’t want to put miles on my CZ, or doing something different with it.

I have a small mountain of 30-06 brass from my milsurp habit and a few jugs of slooow WC872 cannon powder I need to burn through. The 872 works well enough in 30-06 bolt gun loads, but causes failures in my Garands when it’s cold because unburned powder kernels foul the chamber and rounds often fail to fully seat. I’m told it loads like H1000, though I have no experience with that. My 6.5x55 loads using this powder are mild but accurate.

I know the 30-06AI is controversial in that the performance increase over 30-06 is relatively small. I’m considering it because I can’t rechamber the 308 to 30-06 without setting the barrel back. I can, however, go to 30-06AI simply using a rented reamer. I like the idea of my brass being more stable thanks to the sharper shoulder.

What say ye? Do I let the frankengun gather dust and occasionally come out when I’m shooting with friends, or do I give myself a brand new headache with another load to develop and another flavor of subtly different case to pick out after I run my wet tumbler?

Thanks!

Edit- 99+% of my shooting is within 600 yards with 90+% being within 200. Such is life in New England…

The frankengun wears an old Athlon that’s usable but unimpressive by today’s standards for cheap scopes.

I could just sell it or let a friend borrow it indefinitely.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Sounds like a good project - and the kind of stuff that I enjoy doing. I would play with 175g or heavier and H4831SC. I even did a 303AI once and a mate is still shooting it!

 

[boltfluter]

Sounds like a fun project. Be very wary of a rented reamer. Do yourself a favor and cut a test chamber in an old barrel stub, before you do the real thing. Or better yet, borrow a reamer from a friend. Have fun.
Paul

 

[jackieschmidt]

Smart move in going with the Ackley Improved. That way there won’t be a step in the chamber.
Perfectly doable project.

The 872 should work with bullets over 180 grains. To get the full advantage of the setup, you might throat it to shoot 200+ grain bullets and not encroach on the case capacity.

 

[S11033]

Thanks guys, this makes me want to do the project! I don't have a lathe. Should I use a pull-through reamer, or should I use a breech one? I don't have a handle

Smart move in going with the Ackley Improved. That way there won’t be a step in the chamber.
Perfectly doable project.

The 872 should work with bullets over 180 grains. To get the full advantage of the setup, you might throat it to shoot 200+ grain bullets and not encroach on the case capacity.

This may be a dumb question, but should 872 work with 180gr bullets in 308, or do you need larger powder charges to get enough pressure for good ignition?

Also, I just played around a little with a dummy cartridge, and the magazine length isn't all that long. I'm not sure I could fit a 200+ gr projectile unless it were coming out of a 308 or 30-284 case, which come to think of it, could be an interesting alternative and would be easier to tell apart from my 30-06 cases coming out of the tumbler.

 

[ELR LVR]

Hey guys,

I threw a rifle together using spare parts and don’t think I’ll ever love it. It’s an old LA Savage 110 action feeding from a blind mag. It wears a decent 308 Win barrel that’s allegedly from McGowen but has no markings on it. I haven’t worked a load up yet, but it’s shown some promise.

I got a great deal on a CZ600 Range in .308 that I like much more ergonomically. I’m torn between leaving my frankengun as-is to use it when I bring friends to the range and don’t want to put miles on my CZ, or doing something different with it.

I have a small mountain of 30-06 brass from my milsurp habit and a few jugs of slooow WC872 cannon powder I need to burn through. The 872 works well enough in 30-06 bolt gun loads, but causes failures in my Garands when it’s cold because unburned powder kernels foul the chamber and rounds often fail to fully seat. I’m told it loads like H1000, though I have no experience with that. My 6.5x55 loads using this powder are mild but accurate.

I know the 30-06AI is controversial in that the performance increase over 30-06 is relatively small. I’m considering it because I can’t rechamber the 308 to 30-06 without setting the barrel back. I can, however, go to 30-06AI simply using a rented reamer. I like the idea of my brass being more stable thanks to the sharper shoulder.

What say ye? Do I let the frankengun gather dust and occasionally come out when I’m shooting with friends, or do I give myself a brand new headache with another load to develop and another flavor of subtly different case to pick out after I run my wet tumbler?

Thanks!

Edit- 99+% of my shooting is within 600 yards with 90+% being within 200. Such is life in New England…

The frankengun wears an old Athlon that’s usable but unimpressive by today’s standards for cheap scopes.

I could just sell it or let a friend borrow it indefinitely.

Those powders are rather slow for a 30/06 in my personal opinion
Reloder 22 is about as slow as I go with 208- 210 gr weight bullets
Very acurate
57.0 of 4831 is great too
I have some WC 857, which is about 4 grains slower burning than H1000 to give you a perspective
So then you got WC-860
WC 862
WC 872 etc
So you're at least 3 steps slower
especially if using light 150 to162 grn bullets
---------------
Unburned kernels would make sense there
Make it a 22/06 or 6/06 and it may work better

 

[Walt Krafft]

Your twist is probably too slow for heavy bullets. I did what you are considering. You really need that done in a lathe. Then setting it back a bit will let you go standard 06. Mine loved Sierra 165gr hunting hollow points with Ramshot Big Game.

 

[dthomas]

If you have to pay someone to chamber it, you might as well get a prefit barrel for it and you can have it chambered for pretty much anything you want.

 

[DGP4]

Way too slow burning for 30.06. I would think it is best used in magnum cartridges like 300 Winchester Magnum or 300 Weatherby.

 

[S11033]

Those powders are rather slow for a 30/06 in my personal opinion
Reloder 22 is about as slow as I go with 208- 210 gr weight bullets
Very acurate
57.0 of 4831 is great too
I have some WC 857, which is about 4 grains slower burning than H1000 to give you a perspective
So then you got WC-860
WC 862
WC 872 etc
So you're at least 3 steps slower
especially if using light 150 to162 grn bullets
---------------
Unburned kernels would make sense there
Make it a 22/06 or 6/06 and it may work better

Yeah, the powder is waaay slow, but I got a bunch of it for really cheap, and figured I'd find uses for it. It performs well in my 6.5x55 surplus Mausers, AG42s, and Garand (I convinced Criterion to make a run of barrels). A full case (56gr) with a 140gr bullet produces 2500 fps and doesn't leave unburned kernels. It's as accurate as I am with iron sights on a military rifle. I should probably get it out to the range and figure out how big the SD is on that load now that I have a Garmin Xero.

In 30-06 I'm currently using 162gr bullets, but I'm running low and see a sale on 178gr blems. I may just buy 1k to have them. I'll have a use for them whether or not they work any better with the WC872 than my 162s.

Your twist is probably too slow for heavy bullets. I did what you are considering. You really need that done in a lathe. Then setting it back a bit will let you go standard 06. Mine loved Sierra 165gr hunting hollow points with Ramshot Big Game.

The twist rate is 1:10. What makes this rechamber require a lathe? I was going off this article when I was initially researching whether I could rechamber to 30-06, and it seems like the writer was able to do the work with hand tools.

The '06 Ackley, an Ammo Drought-Resistant Rifle • Spotter Up

At the present time ammunition is more plentiful and affordable than it has been under previous administrations, but many of us remember days when ammo prices were high and availability was low, affected by politics and driven by panic-buying after every tragedy involving a nutjob with a...

spotterup.com

If you have to pay someone to chamber it, you might as well get a prefit barrel for it and you can have it chambered for pretty much anything you want.

Yeah, I don't think I'd pay to do anything on this rifle. It's just a parts bin build, and I could just leave it as-is in .308

 

[S11033]

Way too slow burning for 30.06. I would think it is best used in magnum cartridges like 300 Winchester Magnum or 300 Weatherby.

I don't use any larger cases, unfortunately. I live in New England, and my range only goes out to 600yd. I'd have to drive a couple of hours each way for a 1000yd range. Hopefully I'll live somewhere better someday.

Given that it works in 6.5x55, it should also work in 6.5-06 AI... If I found a Savage barrel for that or 6.5-284, I'd jump on it.

 

[DGP4]

Maybe do a swap with someone shooting a magnum caliber gun. Like you, I do not have a long distance range close to me!

 

[ELR LVR]

Yeah, the powder is waaay slow, but I got a bunch of it for really cheap, and figured I'd find uses for it. It performs well in my 6.5x55 surplus Mausers, AG42s, and Garand (I convinced Criterion to make a run of barrels). A full case (56gr) with a 140gr bullet produces 2500 fps and doesn't leave unburned kernels. It's as accurate as I am with iron sights on a military rifle. I should probably get it out to the range and figure out how big the SD is on that load now that I have a Garmin Xero.

In 30-06 I'm currently using 162gr bullets, but I'm running low and see a sale on 178gr blems. I may just buy 1k to have them. I'll have a use for them whether or not they work any better with the WC872 than my 162s.



The twist rate is 1:10. What makes this rechamber require a lathe? I was going off this article when I was initially researching whether I could rechamber to 30-06, and it seems like the writer was able to do the work with hand tools.

The '06 Ackley, an Ammo Drought-Resistant Rifle • Spotter Up

At the present time ammunition is more plentiful and affordable than it has been under previous administrations, but many of us remember days when ammo prices were high and availability was low, affected by politics and driven by panic-buying after every tragedy involving a nutjob with a...

spotterup.com

Yeah, I don't think I'd pay to do anything on this rifle. It's just a parts bin build, and I could just leave it as-is in .308

With a 1:10 you should try some hornady 208 ELD-M's (pretty much the old Amax)
should work better and that twist stabilizes these bullets

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Back in, the Old Days ( Late 1970's to, 1990's ) when, I Built, Custom Rifles, I used to Buy, "Short Chambered" Douglas Premium Barrels for, 98 Mausers in .25-06, .270, .280 and .30-06 from Brownells and then, I HAND Reamed them to, Depth ( "Slowly and, Carefully checking HS, as I went ). Clean the "Chip's",.. OFTEN !
BUT you HAD to make Damn SURE that, the Reamer was,.. "Started",.. Straight !
I did Many of these with,.. NO trouble !
You Can RENT a Reamer from, 4Dreamer rentals. The .30-06 Ai is, a Great idea, IMO !

 

[S11033]

With a 1:10 you should try some hornady 208 ELD-M's (pretty much the old Amax)
should work better and that twist stabilizes these bullets

I just measured my magazine, and it’s only 3.4” long. Would the 208s even fit in it? The Nosler manual I’ve been looking at doesn’t list the COALs for their data from that cartridge.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

You also May want to Try, CCI 250 or, F-215,.. MAGNUM Primers to, Light off,.. the "Cannon Powder" FOR,..
a Better, cleaner,. "Burn" !
Start, a Little Low and,.. "Work Up",.. Good Luck !

 

[ELR LVR]

I just measured my magazine, and it’s only 3.4” long. Would the 208s even fit in it? The Nosler manual I’ve been looking at doesn’t list the COALs for their data from that cartridge.

Good question
I'll measure my loads and get back to you.

 

[dryhumor]

I just measured my magazine, and it’s only 3.4” long. Would the 208s even fit in it? The Nosler manual I’ve been looking at doesn’t list the COALs for their data from that cartridge.

Single load? I shoot several single shots, it’s not really a hassle to load singly. I find myself doing it even when I have magazine.

 

[S11033]

Maybe do a swap with someone shooting a magnum caliber gun. Like you, I do not have a long distance range close to me!

Good point. This made me do some quick math to see just how much of this stuff I actually have to burn through.

I bought a case of 4800 6.5x55 wooden blanks that I used as primed brass. I then pulled the trigger on a deal for 6 jugs of WC872. At 48 grains of powder per shot, that means my 6.5x55 loads alone account for just over 4 of the jugs.

I’ve probably loaded 300-400 rounds of 30-06 at 56-60gr charge, so I probably have about 1 and a half jugs to figure out what to do with. That’s about 1500 rounds of 30-06 or similar.

I don't think I've got so much that I should try to trade it away, not that it would be easy here in MA anyway. I’m gonna order myself some 178gr bullets to see if that cleans up the unburned kernels in my Garands. If it doesn’t, then I'll reserve this powder for my bolt guns.

Back in, the Old Days ( Late 1970's to, 1990's ) when, I Built, Custom Rifles, I used to Buy, "Short Chambered" Douglas Premium Barrels for, 98 Mausers in .25-06, .270, .280 and .30-06 from Brownells and then, I HAND Reamed them to, Depth ( "Slowly and, Carefully checking HS, as I went ). Clean the "Chip's",.. OFTEN !
BUT you HAD to make Damn SURE that, the Reamer was,.. "Started",.. Straight !
I did Many of these with,.. NO trouble !
You Can RENT a Reamer from, 4Dreamer rentals. The .30-06 Ai is, a Great idea, IMO !

I've finish reamed short-chambered barrels to headspace, but I've never removed as much material as I'd have to in this case. I'll do some more reading on it. The guy in that article said he did it in about 2 hours going real slow by hand.

I may have a line on a 6.5-06 AI barrel from the same guy I bought this unmarked (but decent) .308 barrel from. I guess the amount of powder I have to burn through would match up decently well with the barrel's expected life.

You also May want to Try, CCI 250 or, F-215,.. MAGNUM Primers to, Light off,.. the "Cannon Powder" FOR,..
a Better, cleaner,. "Burn" !
Start, a Little Low and,.. "Work Up",.. Good Luck !

I'll see what I can find locally. I've read that it doesn't make nearly as much of a difference as using it in more overbore calibers with heavy bullets, but it certainly can't hurt

Good question
I'll measure my loads and get back to you.

Thanks, looking forward to it! Single loading is always an option, but I'd prefer to find a workable combination that I can mag feed, if possible.

 

[Will Henry]

One thing I would keep in mind if doing a 30/06 AI; Ackley made an error in his chamber drawing, and virtually every reamer maker has perpetuated this error. The OAL of the chamber is about .031 too long. So, you have 3 choices.
1. Make the chamber the correct length for 30/06 brass and set the shoulder back to match the headspace figure in the drawing. Nosler shows this in their drawing.
2. chamber to 30/06 minus .004", as is standard for AI cartridges and live with the gap at the mouth.
3. Chamber as in (2) and use 270 or 280 brass to fill the gap.
I had a long conversation with Dave Kiff about this, about 15 years ago. He was thinking of correcting his print and grinding reamers to the correct dimensions but was a little concerned that he might end up having to do a bunch of regrinds. I was going to send my reamer back for a regrind but never did. WH