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308 velocities?

Texas Solo

B.S. High Master
Finally done with load development. Got my 308 F/TR shooting .307" @ 100, 1.469" (.489 moa) @ 300.
It's now a repeatable 1/2 MOA rifle. BUT....
It's only going 2553fps. I have no reference point, but 2553 seems a bit slow. not sure what it will do at 600 or 1000.
I could be wrong?

So what kind of velocities are you guys getting from your 308"s with 185gr Berger Juggs?

Here's my specs:
30" 1/10 barrel with 168 freebore.
185 Juggs CBTO 2.365 (-025")
40.5 IMR4895
.002 neck tension
Federal GMM brass bumped .003
 
Finally done with load development. Got my 308 F/TR shooting .307" @ 100, 1.469" (.489 moa) @ 300.
It's now a repeatable 1/2 MOA rifle. BUT....
It's only going 2553fps. I have no reference point, but 2553 seems a bit slow. not sure what it will do at 600 or 1000.
I could be wrong?

So what kind of velocities are you guys getting from your 308"s with 185gr Berger Juggs?

Here's my specs:
30" 1/10 barrel with 168 freebore.
185 Juggs CBTO 2.365 (-025")
40.5 IMR4895
.002 neck tension
Federal GMM brass bumped .003
With 40.7 grs of IMR 4064 my velocity is around 2559 fps out of Peterson brass with CCI-200's, COAL: 2.955" and .015 off lands out of my 24" Krieger barrel (no point in listing my CBTO since my comparator insert is probably way different than yours). Out of my current 26" barrel I figure I'd get ~ 2580 fps. I had bought some factory Federal cartridges having the Jug's and they chronoed at 2650 fps out of the same 24" barrel and when I took a couple of them apart to measure the powder, the weight was 45.1 grs of whatever they use and their COAL was 2.926".

I meant to but never got around to trying H-4895 on my Jugs, as I felt 2559 fps as too slow for me. Based on my data for the Jugs, I estimate my MV would be around 2671 fps our of my 26" barrel with a COAL: 2.968. With a 30" barrel, that MV might be something like 2740 fps. So, if you can find some H-4895 rather the the IMR, that should help.

Hope this give you some ideas??? :)
 
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I love 185 jugs. In a Savage with their Target Action, 10 twist 30" Criterion Barrel and 43.0 grns of Varget, Federal 210M primer, seated .020 off has an average velocity of 2704 with an ES of 13 and a SD of 5.
I agree 2559 maybe to slow if you are looking at 600-1000 yds performance.
 
I love 185 jugs. In a Savage with their Target Action, 10 twist 30" Criterion Barrel and 43.0 grns of Varget, Federal 210M primer, seated .020 off has an average velocity of 2704 with an ES of 13 and a SD of 5.
I agree 2559 maybe to slow if you are looking at 600-1000 yds performance.

Hold up. That's the exact action ,& barrel I have. I've shot that exact load
using Fed brass and Win mag primers.
I couldn't get near 2700.
 
I’ve just worked up a load with 185 Juggernauts as well. Not quite done testing, but MV is ~ 2675 fps. It is an accurate load and I’ll be shooting it the first time at a match this Saturday. I tried to get at least 2675 fps since I will be using the load to shoot 1,000 yd matches and don’t want the bullet to go transonic. MV of 2675 fps is about the lowest I want to go based on my ballistic calculator. At 1,000 yds, it will be just above the transonic zone at ~ 1360 fps.

Your load should be fine out to 600 yds at 2,550 fps MV. Based on my ballistic calculator with a 185 Juggernaut, you should be around 1,700 fps at 600 yds. At 1,000 yds, it will be transonic at around 1,250 fps, so that will be a problem.
 
Hold up. That's the exact action ,& barrel I have. I've shot that exact load
using Fed brass and Win mag primers.
I couldn't get near 2700.
Well, I live in southern Nevada and our shooting range is at about 2500 ft. Being here brings on a whole lot of different conditions you may not be exposed to.
Just my elevation and lack of humidity is an advantage over some other places around the country. I failed mention that I'm using Lapua brass which has less internal volume than the Federal brass. That is most likely increasing my velocity due to more pressure.
 
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Well, I live in southern Nevada and our shooting range is at about 2500 ft. Being here brings on a whole lot of different conditions you may not be exposed to.
Just my elevation and lack of humidity is an advantage over some other places around the country. I failed mention that I'm using Lapua brass which has less internal volume than the Federal brass. That is most likely increasing my velocity due to more pressure.

Thanks for the update.
I'm at 200ft elevation, not much humidity. That & the brass could make up 50fps I guess.
I'm very happy with my groups and not willing to sacrifice accuracy for speed.
But I just loaded more ammo at
42.8 Varget & 43.0 IMR4064. I had more velocity last time I tried these, about 2650, but the groups were just OK, not 1/2 moa. I have done some stock work since I last tried these 2 loads, so I'm going to try them again.
Thanks for the info.
 
I shot Juggernauts in F-TR competition for years at ~2725 fps over Varget from 30" 11-twist barrels. This is the same node @LVLAaron mentioned above. Those loads were stupid accurate/precise, I'd say conservatively somewhere in the 0.3 MOA range for 5 shots at 100 yd, perhaps even a tick better. Depending on the freebore length, predicted pressures (QuickLoad) should run in the 59-60K psi range. I have run those loads in both large rifle primer and [later] small rifle primer brass. Even though predicted pressures were well below SAAMI MAX (62K psi) the [Lapua] large rifle primer brass life wasn't great, maybe 5-6 firings before the primer pockets would start to go. With SRP brass, pressure is a non-issue.

If you are having an issue achieving velocities in excess of 2600 fps with 185s and Varget out of a 30" barrel, something is wrong. Without knowing your setup specifics, it could be having a relatively short freebore/short COL. Edited to add: I just saw that you listed the freebore as 0.168", which is plenty. Disregard the short freebore statement. My issues with pressure and poor primer pocket life occured before I had my competiton barrels throated out appropriately. At the time I was using chambers with .085" fb (COL = ~2.895-2.900"), which is really much too short for the 185s. Alternatively, the barrel may not have "sped up" yet, or it could just be that you have a relatively slow barrel. In other words, there could be a number of reasons. However, I will say that IMR4895 is probably not the best powder choice for 185s. In order to hit the node comparable to Varget at ~2725 fps, you would probably have to push the 185s closer to 2800 fps with IMR4895, probably not where you want to be at this point. You might be able to dial up the speed a bit with IMR4895m but it's going to take substantially more than 40.5 gr of powder to do it. I am loathe to tell someone else how much powder to use in their setups when I don't know the rifle specifics, but somewhere above 43.0 gr would not be an unreasonable guess. It is likely that the 42.8 gr Varget you mentioned trying is about halfway in between nodes, possibly on a scatter node. There is no reason you should be able to obtain similar precision at the higher velocity, as long as you can actually hit the higher node up around 2725 fps or so. Obviously, there will be a little more recoil at 2725 fps versus 2550 fps, but in no way would it be unmanageable, and F-TR shooters have been loading Jugs with excellent results at the faster node with 30" barreled rifles for many years. So it can definitely be done, but you have to find the higher node(s) and tune the load accordingly.

If there is some other reason other than possibly short COL that your rifle is generating low velocity and/or excessive pressure with Varget loads in the 43-44 gr range, perhaps it might be a good idea to have a gunsmith look it over. Some folks simply don't like to run the kind of loads typically found amongst F-TR shooters. F-TR shooters often run Varget and/or N150 loads with 185 gr + bullets using 30" barrels that have >95% fill ratio and velocities ranging from ~2650 fps (200s) to over 2750 fps with lighter bullets. These loads typically fall somewhere near SAAMI MAX pressure (i.e. ~59-62K psi), which is one reason why SRP brass is a popular choice. Not everyone wants to do that. I get that, and it's fine. What I'm saying is that if you think there might be some other reason for the relatively low velocity such as a tight or constricted spot in the barrel (i.e. not by choice), then having someone look the rifle over might be wise.

Another alternative might be to give the 168 Hybrids a try. If your already running the Juggernauts, chances are good that freebore, tiwst rate, and barrel length will be just fine for the 168 Hybrids. In fact, the 168 Hybrid is one of the few bullets I've ever used where it is possible to equal (or surpass) the performance of the next higher weight class of bullets; in this case, 185 Juggernauts. The G7 BC of the 168 Hybrid is a little lower than that of the Juggernaut (.264 vs .284), but you can run them much faster due to the lighter weight. In fact, the BC of the 168 Hybrid is high enough that the extra velocity is sufficient to make up for the BC deficit, something that rarely happens. I ran the 168 Hybrids in the same .085 freebore F-TR rifles at ~2900 fps over H4895, and they shot very, very well. The 168s performance out to 1000 yd should be almost identical to that of running the Juggernauts at a velocity approximately 150 to 175 fps slower.

Edited to add: every barrel can be different, but if I had to guess, you probably didn't go quite high/fast enough with Varget. In some people's hands, there seems to be a very good node with Varget and Jugs at ~2650 to 2675 fps from a 30" barrel. Then there can be the next higher node at about ~2725 to 2750 fps. Because each barrel can be different, those numbers are only a guideline, not written in stone. If you didn't quite reach the "sweet spot", that might be the reason accuracy wasn't what you'd hoped it would be.
 
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As some have stated , you have to find the "node" that your rifle likes best , regardless of the velocity . I've been running the 185gr Juggernaut Target for several years now , and experimented with different loads , seating depths , and powders through that period . Finally settled on 43.45gr of N150 , at .005 off touch , and consistently get high 190's ( 197 -199 ) and the X-count runs from 8 to 13... I did try running them faster , but the group started to open above 2665 , so I settled on that load as consistent . Barrel is a Kreiger 30"-5r , with 2013 F-TR Manson reamer , and FB was extended to .180 .
 
D4297...higher velocity by 1/2 grain opened groups. I did not try going even higher. As mentioned, I have done some Stockport since then so I'll try those loads again.
 

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