.308 + Varget + where to go?

[SPQR70AD]

Any one can get lucky. The information i provide is not theory it is proven day in and day out. As i said it works perfectly perfect every time. Tiny, tiny groups. Could you imagine a person competing in a benchrest competition saying , I'm not going to worry about seating depth . I'm going to use a crimped case and deform these perfect match bullet's. What's the difference between a.010 group and a .o20 group? Answer winning or not winning.

Most of the posts I see here on this thread are not about a thousandth of an inch or winning a championship. you are correct about bench rest shooting and your style has to be adhered to. But how many shooters compete in bench rest out of all the shooters? Black Hills makes some of the most accurate ammo in the world with crimped bullets. If you are worried about deforming a bullet with a crimp what about the rifling cutting grooves in the bullet at 60K PSI with the tremendous heat from the powder burning? What I stated has nothing to do with bench rest being it is way to anal for me lol. I truly respect the guys that do it and their passion.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

It is just as easy to do the reload's correctly as doing them incorrectly. It seems many guys want to go bang bang bang with no regard for barrel life or accuracy. If you look at the original post you will see i am trying to teach (not )i repeat (not) be anal . not overtesting not wasting components not ruining barrels. Seems like you got it backwards. As for seven types of powder , a person might get lucky with the first or second type . And you would be foolish to test any after that. The point is really that powder type is what makes a great load and going up in .1-.2 grain increments and five of each and firing all just because you loaded them is a crime against a good gun. I have seen fools ruin good guns by overtesting .and they still don't get really good groups. Easy-smeazy is my load method. Within only a small number of shot's i am getting great accuracy. Who could not like that ?

 

[SPQR70AD]

It is just as easy to do the reload's correctly as doing them incorrectly. It seems many guys want to go bang bang bang with no regard for barrel life or accuracy. If you look at the original post you will see i am trying to teach (not )i repeat (not) be anal . not overtesting not wasting components not ruining barrels. Seems like you got it backwards. As for seven types of powder , a person might get lucky with the first or second type . And you would be foolish to test any after that. The point is really that powder type is what makes a great load and going up in .1-.2 grain increments and five of each and firing all just because you loaded them is a crime against a good gun. I have seen fools ruin good guns by overtesting .and they still don't get really good groups. Easy-smeazy is my load method. Within only a small number of shot's i am getting great accuracy. Who could not like that ?

without a doubt your method is excellent and when you said you might find the right powder the first or second one that is what I have found. I misunderstood you and thought you were the one wearing out barrels and wasting powder lol. Sorry about that. To me the 308 is the easiest round I ever loaded for and if one powder is good for a certain rifle you can bet it will be very good in any other 308 maybe not the very best but a good starting point.

 

[dc.fireman]

Update:

tested 20 @ 200 yds. - they held the 10 & X ring. Ran the other 10 over the chronograph: everything from 2720 - 2780's. The spread is a lot larger than I'd like. Went home and checked the overall length again, and they're jammed .020". I'm going to back them down .030" and see what happens. The funny thing is, even jammed, they shot really really well.

 

[Papa Charlie]

I shoot .308 for F-Class at 500 yards.
Reload recipe:
LAPUA LRP
BERGER 185 JUGS
Seated 0.010" OTL
VARGET 42.7 GN
CCI BR2 Primers
2670 fps

This was my last relay from my last competition at 500 yards.

 

[dc.fireman]

Thanks @Papa Charlie - I'm hoping .010" off the lands will give me the same type of consistency over the chronograph, with the hope that that same consistency translates to accuracy at the 300M line.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Every barrel is different, this you already know.
I start with powder in 0.5gn increments, 5 rounds each, seated 0.010" OTL
then when I find the node I test 0.6gn above and below in 0.02gn increments, again at 0.010" OTL and 5 rounds each.
Then take that load and I test seating depth, starting at 0.005" OTL and increase it in 0.005" increments to 0.030" OTL, again 5 rounds each.
When you are done, you should be golden. I only test very early in the morning to prevent winds and other environmental conditions from affecting the outcome. I only have 220 yards available so that is my distance for testing.
Good luck. I have thought about other calibers but I like my .308. Even though I fantasize about changing often.

 

[Armourer572]

Hey all -

After having a dismal match score last weekend, and some issues with my reloads, I decided to examine again using Varget in my .308 300M match rifle ( a Tikka T3 Sporter), with 1095 rounds fired. I was originally pushing a 168 bullet - Sierra's and Hornady's at an anemic 2400 fps with 40.0 gr. of H4895, seated at 2.800" COAL.

I read a few older threads here regarding 43.5 - 45.0gr. of Varget. I also read several threads proposing the idea of 'convergence', which I still don't quite grasp. Of particular interest to me was a quote by @Erik Cortina regarding not being 'mesmerized by small groups.'

I loaded up groups of four each in 43.5, 43.8, 44.0, 44.2, 44.3, 44.4, 44.5 seated at .050" of the lands (2.920" CAOL), plus 5 rounds of my original load to use as foulers/sighters/baseline. My suspicions were confirmed regarding my original load - it's not even acceptable @ 100Y, much less 300M.

I fired these off at 100 yards, using a 14 power Nikon from a front rest and rear bag - my normal test rig, before switching to iron sights/sling/prone at a 300M reduced for 200Y C-2 target.

Looking at 44.3, it's tough not to be mesmerized - I haven't fired four shots through the same hole, ever.

I have loaded up 30 more of the 44.3 for testing at distance . My question is, what other combinations would you test here, based upon the convergence principle? Change seating depths, and try a charge weight again? Something else?

H4895 in a Remington tactical, 20 inch barrel, 2600 fps, mild kick, and good to 900m.

 

[Armourer572]

H4895 in a Remington tactical, 20 inch barrel, 2600 fps, mild kick, and good to 900m.

Hornady 178 bthp.

 

[TrekUS]

This is driving me crazy. With the 308 all you have to do to get tiny, tiny groups is pick a bullet, then seat it out as far as possible without being jammed. Then pick up to 7 of the top powder choice's , then just load 12 of each powder, using 1 grain increments- example- varget 3@44, 3@45,3@ 46, 3@47. That = 12 per powder type. What you will see is one powder that shines like a bright beacon. Over the other powders. It will give the results you seek without ruining your barrel and wasting components. Also when i shoot two bullet's that don't go right together i won't even shoot the third, just take it home and disassemble. This technique works perfectly perfect. Every time.

Interesting, and certainly worth following... don’t you still have to purchase “x” lbs of powder? Asking as I don't know... is it possible to purchase 1/2 lb containers? Thanks!

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

I reload for many different calibers, i have almost every powder and it comes in handy to find what works with what bullet. As for your question , sometimes as you test one powder and it doesn't give great accuracy then you buy the second powder, if that doesn't work great then buy the third - ect. Sometimes you find the great powder on the second or third powder, sometimes it takes more. Example recently, i was testing a new 223 with 40 berger's. I expected n130, n133, n120, lt32, or H322 to be the best however what surprised me was 5744 powder actually worked perfectly , about .150" groups. The other powders were .260- .330". So I've seen this happen over and over for years. One powder will really shine. I hope this advice is helpful and not too daunting.

 

[Alaska Bush Man]

Easy
168 Mk
WW Or Norma Brass
Varget
45 to 45.5
CCI BR2 primer
I found Varget performs best near Max of 46.0
WW Brass great powder capacity.
My load is 45.5 with 168 MK and 45.0 with 175 MK
Or IMR 4064 at 44.5 with both bullets

 

[762plinker]

I have a real M40a1 and M24 rifles (have several Military sons)
Did a lot of research on the M118 and M118LR loads
ended up with a winning load using 43.7 gr R15 w/CCI BR2 primers Sierra SMK 168gr
After 600 yards the 168s start to go subsonic thats why the M118LR went to a 173 gr bullet

sorry but you are wrong both on bullet and speed
the m118lr was a sierra 175 match king.
the mil has not used the poor quality match 173 since they went to the 168 in the m852
the mil considers the 7.62x51 an 800 yards sniper round, shots made much longer.

 

[rijndael]

the m118lr was a sierra 175 match king.

 

[762plinker]

View attachment 1400579

4064 is the CURRENT GENERIC 7.62 LOAD..IT IS NOT WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS 316.1 I THINK

 

[Liven The Dream]

From a time long long ago .
.308 Bolt Guns !
Every .308 will shot 4064
Some will shot 4895

 

[lotech]

I've used 43 grs. H4895 with the 168 Hornady Match and the 168 Sierra MK. That's a bit under recommended maximum. Muzzle velocity is about 2700 from a 24" barrel. Varget works well, but H4895 will often provide at least slightly better accuracy than Varget. I'm not being critical of Varget, but I think many use it without comparing the accuracy results with H4895 loads. Try them both in your gun and use what shoots best.