.308 dimension questions...

[brccd]

Hi All,

Looking for some help on dimensions here...

I see the length for this is supposed to be 2.8".

I started reloading 10 years ago, doing .223 and .308 ... using lee dies\press

For 308 use, i had a savage 10, and the rounds i made were actually measuring 2.75"...worked perfectly in the gun.

Recently bought a savage 110 Storm 308, went to the range and had issues loading and ejecting!

Questioned my reloads...after checking things, the new rifle seems to have either a very tigh chamber or some issue...going back to savage... even empty clean shell case goin in the gun would cause a problem and come out scratched.

In the meantime, to confirm things, bought factory Federal .308, American white tail, 165 grain, to make some comparison measurments...

Those federal rounds are measuring 2.75" and not 2.8" ...

found some specs with mins and max measures..

from saami:

Question:
has anyone used a min length for 308 down to 2.490"? a range from 2.7 to 2.8 seems acceptable.
Is this maybe gun dependent, or should all rifles in .308 be able to handle this range?

Thx

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

Where are the scratches?

What is the trim length on your empty cases?

Did those 2.75 Federal rounds you just bought load okay?

 

[brccd]

Hi,

The scratches showed 2 ways on empty cases (these were perfectly clean):

1. a few 1/4" lines midway along lenght of case...a few of those seperated bymaybe 1/8" almost looked like rifling lines.
2. around the circumference near base of case...

lenght of case was to spec 2.015

It was like the cse gets stuck in the bore.

pic:
,

FYI - I have a savage 10, 308, and these same cases were cycled there perfectly, bolt moves, loads\ejects smooth as silk.
the new 110 was having trouble from the get go!
I think the bore is too tight, and dealer mentioned maybe head space?

Re federal cartridges: gun was sent out to savage already, so did not get to try those. I compared all the dimensions to the cases I had and the federal and all were comparable. As mentioned, they work perfectly in the savage 10 (308), working for years...so do the guns have their own personality or should they handle the min max specs?

Thx

 

[ShtrRdy]

A firearm chambered in 308 Win should be able to handle the range of cartridge lengths as shown in the SAAMI drawing you posted.

 

[WSnyder]

so do the guns have their own personality or should they handle the min max specs?

The gun that won’t chamber and leaves scratches has something wrong with the chamber. If it’s new send it back for warranty. If it’s not new find someone to fix it.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Mass produced Factory Rifles are designed to chamber, fire, and eject any SAAMI spec round on the planet.
Your new Savage 110 simply has a bad chamber from the Factory. It happens.
Savage will probably install a replacement barrel.

 

[brccd]

Ok...I think you guys confirmed things for me and suspect the gun...a bit disappointed. Got the gun, new, went to the range, next day back to dealer, now need to wait 4 to 6 weeks to get it back and try again!

Once I get it back, I will give an update.

Thanks for the inputs!
Regards

 

[dellet]

found some specs with mins and max measures..

from saami:

Question:
has anyone used a min length for 308 down to 2.490"? a range from 2.7 to 2.8 seems acceptable.
Is this maybe gun dependent, or should all rifles in .308 be able to handle this range?

Thx

Max length is more often than not determined by what length will fit in the magazine, or the longest length the action can cycle.

Minimum is generally the shortest that can be reliably fed from the magazine.

The 2.490” minimum for the 308 cartridge would be the short fat 110 round nose 30 carbine bullet.

I sure someone has loaded an even little shorter and used the 85-90 grain 30 Mauser and Luger pistol bullets.

 

[Texas Solo]

My Savage #12 never had a factory load in it. From new, I measured & loaded 185gr Berger Juggs. Never had an issue.
Then I was given a box of Fereral GMM 165 ammo. Factory loaded ammo. The bolt would not close on it. Don't remember the specs, but the factory ammo was definitely longer.

 

[brccd]

My Savage #12 never had a factory load in it. From new, I measured & loaded 185gr Berger Juggs. Never had an issue.
Then I was given a box of Fereral GMM 165 ammo. Factory loaded ammo. The bolt would not close on it. Don't remember the specs, but the factory ammo was definitely longer.

interesting...I have the savage 10, and right outta the box, factory lads, and reloads, never had this problem...and the same cartridges in the 110...go into the 10 with no issue...I think there may be something not right with the chamber on the 110. I saw on line a number of postings from people indicating they had returned their NEW guns to savage and had chambers cut short.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Ok...I think you guys confirmed things for me and suspect the gun...a bit disappointed. Got the gun, new, went to the range, next day back to dealer, now need to wait 4 to 6 weeks to get it back and try again!

Once I get it back, I will give an update.

Thanks for the inputs!
Regards

I went through a similar thing with a Ruger, where somehow the lands were not uniform and an issue with the bolt. I had to wait for them to sent me a pre-paid shipping box, then the time it took for them to do their inspection. I thought they'd just fix the gun, but instead they sent me a whole new one even though I had already fired 131 rounds in the original. What a hassle! I've been happy with it since.

 

[brccd]

I went through a similar thing with a Ruger, where somehow the lands were not uniform and an issue with the bolt. I had to wait for them to sent me a pre-paid shipping box, then the time it took for them to do their inspection. I thought they'd just fix the gun, but instead they sent me a whole new one even though I had already fired 131 rounds in the original. What a hassle! I've been happy with it since.

Interesting...guess this does happen...did not expect this, but good to know people get the issues resolved....hope mine resolves! Thx

 

[Martin52]

For 308 use, i had a savage 10, and the rounds i made were actually measuring 2.75"...worked perfectly in the gun.

Recently bought a savage 110 Storm 308, went to the range and had issues loading and ejecting!

The rounds you had problems with in the 110 Storm 88 - are these the rounds that you mentioned you 'made' ie reloaded ? As the rifle is a recent purchase, was the brass you used first fired in a different gun, in the Savage 10 maybe ?

 

[brccd]

The rounds you had problems with in the 110 Storm 88 - are these the rounds that you mentioned you 'made' ie reloaded ? As the rifle is a recent purchase, was the brass you used first fired in a different gun, in the Savage 10 maybe ?

it was a mix...but checked the casings and measurments, and they were all in correct spec...and retried these in the savage 10, and that ran smooth as silk...

After lots of googling and checking, and some others inputs from the site here, it sounds like the chamber is too tight, too short or both...and there have been reports of others with similar problems, and savage wrote back, that things were too tight, and they either fixed or replaced barrels! so, will need to see what savage comes back with on this.

 

[drop_point]

Were these cartridges that you loaded? How many firings on the brass?

 

[Doom]

The rifle should have never left the factory with the kind of markings showing on the brass. That chamber is bad.

As for length, the SAAMI spec sets the maximum at 2.810" but most use 2.800" whichI believe comes from the military 7.62x51 NATO spec. It matters for magazine design. It is also common for cartridges to be loaded shorter, especially for shorter bullets as others have noted. The shorter bullets would have less/insufficient bearing surface in the neck of the cartridge if loaded to 2.800"

 

[brccd]

Were these cartridges that you loaded? How many firings on the brass?

these were clean empty cases, to spec, pushed into chamber, getting stuck, and came out with scratches!

 

[brccd]

The rifle should have never left the factory with the kind of markings showing on the brass. That chamber is bad.

As for length, the SAAMI spec sets the maximum at 2.810" but most use 2.800" whichI believe comes from the military 7.62x51 NATO spec. It matters for magazine design. It is also common for cartridges to be loaded shorter, especially for shorter bullets as others have noted. The shorter bullets would have less/insufficient bearing surface in the neck of the cartridge if loaded to 2.800"

yeah, I agree it should have not left the factory! don't they test fire these things for releasing it? This gun also was a stainless barrel... not sure if that had something to do with it. I found on line others who had similar Savage guns, with the problem, and did need fixing, documented by savage! NOw wait and see...on its way back to savage now...

 

[drop_point]

these were clean empty cases, to spec, pushed into chamber, getting stuck, and came out with scratches!

What do you mean clean empty cases to spec? Were they fired in another rifle? What did they measure at the 0.200" line? How many times were these pieces of brass fired?

 

[brccd]

What do you mean clean empty cases to spec? Were they fired in another rifle? What did they measure at the 0.200" line? How many times were these pieces of brass fired?

hi,
"empty case", meaning cleaned, polished, sized.. no bullet. Checked all dimensions on shoulder, neck etc...all looked good. I believe the .200 line you mean is the dia of the base of the shell....it is .47...these were used maybe 2 X...spec shows .4703
I found on line others who had similar Savage guns, with the problem, chamber too tight, and they did need fixing, documented by savage when they were returned. So have to wait now. uggh.

I also have a savage 10 .308...trying them there, no issue, been using this for years. and never had any issues with that one...from 2011...new gun got a month ago! Its stainless...and may be older from their stock...and a few years ago, seems there were some issues, I might have gotten one of those!

needless to say, I am not happy about this.